What is Gnosis?

[Vivian]

Hello Crusader...

I will be glad to address your points. I think I will also post this as a separate Gnosis thread. There may be others with questions or other insights to add.


1. Yes. The Jesus Aoen is a thought energy creation and is the object of worship for most present day Christians. However, it is only a small part of the enemy that exists on the inner side. There are thought energy creations by the original Luciferic consciousness (the archangel that fell from Heaven) and there are other malevolent entities from the many mansions of the Father's House.

There are also human discarnate beings misleading us.

We are constantly under attack by demons, aeons, archons, the discarnate by whatever names you want to call them.

A human is comprised of both a physical body and subtle bodies - through which he can connect with God/Divine and manifest His Will here in the physical. However, due to its spiritual receiver capabilities, the bodies also pick up on and are influenced by non divine messages, which are actually much louder and stronger than the subtle quiet impulses from God. That is why we must be still to know Him. These louder more insistent voices/thought/impulses come from what is called the astral sphere...the heaven that will be made new along with earth. This heaven differs from the Heaven the Father resides in, for that one is unchanging and eternal.

And the veil between their world and ours is thinning. There are more and more contacts being made...channelings, et visitations, imitation holy spirit outpourings, a guiding voice of an imposter Master (For some it is Buddha, some Arch Angel Michael, St. Germain, Jesus - I have personal expereiece with some of these and know countless others who have experienced similar. Few will accept though that "their" connection with the spirit world is of a questionable source. It is always everyone elses that is wrong and theirs is right. Jack Hayford is one of the more famous that is guided by "the voice of Jesus".)

2. Jesus was/is the Christ Himself. This is how Christ manifests in this realm...through specially chosen sons of man.

When you become One with Christ, Crusader, you will find Jesus there and much more. Much much more. All that has been created will eventually unite back into Christ (for it all came through Him).

Christ then is more than the man Jesus. But Jesus, the son of man is all Christ, or Son of God, for He became One with the only begotten and through this connection One with the Father.

First there was One, and then there were Two - the Infinite and an exact image of the Infinite, except it was Finite existing within the Infinite.

Out of the Two then came the only begotten Son - Christ - Divine Love - the manifestation of the Father in creation.

And out of the Son came all that was created.

For the Christ to come down to this level of creation, to the physical realm, He must manifest through a consciousness that is One with Him. The consciousness then becomes One and the Same as Christ. It is the I Am.

3. For a while, I had no name for that which I now refer to as Gnosis. It was only after several years of seeking that I found others who had experienced the same and they referred to it as such. Gnosis then are the keys of knowledge that come from the Father into our consciousness to unlock the doors, tear down the veils, that block our connection with the Kingdom - just as the veil in the temple separated the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place. Did you know that the temple is a map of the human body? The most Holy place is that place within us where we commune with the Divine.

Jesus brought these keys with Him, as Christ says in Revelation "I have the keys of David". The Tabernacle of David is a picture of a son of man with all the veils torn down - constant and continual communion with the Father while in the physical realm. It is a picture of the coming Messiah.

The gnosis keys are vibrations realized as words or phrases that are like rockets in our minds. God is always speaking them to them to us, but we cannot always hear.

The "hidden knowledge" or written gnosis that you are referring to can contain these keys in the vibration behind the words. They in and of themselves though are of little use unless they work to unveil our minds to an awareness of the Kingdom within.

Many keys can be found in the words of Jesus that are presented in the Bible. It was in both the Old Testament and the New Testament that I found keys unlocking my consciousness.

I have heard it said that there will also be keys contained in the forthcoming manifestation of the events of the end times. Right now they remain hidden/sealed in John's written gnosis.

The true path to union with God is found when our hearts are awakened and we are subsequently led to repent of or turn away from the life we are living in the world, just as in the story of the prodigal son. While living in the far country he was awakened to memories of His Father's House. He then repented, turned away from this life of self seeking survival, pleasure and vanity and began - fully focused on his Father - his journey Home. This is the same that is shown over and over in the Teachings of Jesus and those of His disciples. We must leave all behind, all that we are attached to in this world, all that is mammon - which is more than mere money - it is all material possessions, all worldly relationships. We must deny our self, pick up our cross, and follow Him.

We have not yet repented if our focus is on anything in this world - house, hobbies, church, spouse, friends, children (Not that we relinquish our proper responsibilities for others, just our attachment to them. And this is not easy. Remember the rich young man? Paul also talks about this in his epistles. Dead to self. Alive in Christ!).

We cannot serve two masters, we cannot serve this world and God and His Kingdom at the same time. And His Kingdom is not of this world. Service while in this world, though, is essential, for the path Home is walked in loving service on behalf of all of humanity. However our concept of service - how best to serve humanity - changes as we progress in our journey.

4. Jesus died in two ways. He died to his ego, "it is finished." And His physical body died, but He only experienced the physical death process up to a certain point. Did not his Spirit leave his body upon His command and not by force upon physical death?

5. The mysteries aren’t necessary for union with God. They are the knowings that we accumulate as we draw near. The glass gets a little less dim as we journey until finally we see face to face. In past times, though, this has been a slow journey. But it is said, is it not, that for some of us this will occur in a twinkling of an eye with the return of Christ? It is also said though they few will have repented and be ready.

This is a journey of the heart and wherever your treasure is so is your heart. If your treasure is still in this temporal world of life and death – career, house, children, hobbies, friends, church – then that is what you will receive. But if your treasure is the Kingdom that can be found within – the Eternal world of Life, then this you will receive.


He who loves the world does not have the Love of the Father in him.


vivian

[Krusader]

Hello Crusader...

I will be glad to address your points. I think I will also post this as a separate Gnosis thread. There may be others with questions or other insights to add.


1. Yes. The Jesus Aoen is a thought energy creation and is the object of worship for most present day Christians. However, it is only a small part of the enemy that exists on the inner side. There are thought energy creations by the original Luciferic consciousness (the archangel that fell from Heaven) and there are other malevolent entities from the many mansions of the Father's House.

There are also human discarnate beings misleading us.

We are constantly under attack by demons, aeons, archons, the discarnate by whatever names you want to call them.

A human is comprised of both a physical body and subtle bodies - through which he can connect with God/Divine and manifest His Will here in the physical. However, due to its spiritual receiver capabilities, the bodies also pick up on and are influenced by non divine messages, which are actually much louder and stronger than the subtle quiet impulses from God. That is why we must be still to know Him. These louder more insistent voices/thought/impulses come from what is called the astral sphere...the heaven that will be made new along with earth. This heaven differs from the Heaven the Father resides in, for that one is unchanging and eternal.

And the veil between their world and ours is thinning. There are more and more contacts being made...channelings, et visitations, imitation holy spirit outpourings, a guiding voice of an imposter Master (For some it is Buddha, some Arch Angel Michael, St. Germain, Jesus - I have personal expereiece with some of these and know countless others who have experienced similar. Few will accept though that "their" connection with the spirit world is of a questionable source. It is always everyone elses that is wrong and theirs is right. Jack Hayford is one of the more famous that is guided by "the voice of Jesus".)

2. Jesus was/is the Christ Himself. This is how Christ manifests in this realm...through specially chosen sons of man.

When you become One with Christ, Crusader, you will find Jesus there and much more. Much much more. All that has been created will eventually unite back into Christ (for it all came through Him).

Christ then is more than the man Jesus. But Jesus, the son of man is all Christ, or Son of God, for He became One with the only begotten and through this connection One with the Father.

First there was One, and then there were Two - the Infinite and an exact image of the Infinite, except it was Finite existing within the Infinite.

Out of the Two then came the only begotten Son - Christ - Divine Love - the manifestation of the Father in creation.

And out of the Son came all that was created.

For the Christ to come down to this level of creation, to the physical realm, He must manifest through a consciousness that is One with Him. The consciousness then becomes One and the Same as Christ. It is the I Am.

3. For a while, I had no name for that which I now refer to as Gnosis. It was only after several years of seeking that I found others who had experienced the same and they referred to it as such. Gnosis then are the keys of knowledge that come from the Father into our consciousness to unlock the doors, tear down the veils, that block our connection with the Kingdom - just as the veil in the temple separated the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place. Did you know that the temple is a map of the human body? The most Holy place is that place within us where we commune with the Divine.

Jesus brought these keys with Him, as Christ says in Revelation "I have the keys of David". The Tabernacle of David is a picture of a son of man with all the veils torn down - constant and continual communion with the Father while in the physical realm. It is a picture of the coming Messiah.

The gnosis keys are vibrations realized as words or phrases that are like rockets in our minds. God is always speaking them to them to us, but we cannot always hear.

The "hidden knowledge" or written gnosis that you are referring to can contain these keys in the vibration behind the words. They in and of themselves though are of little use unless they work to unveil our minds to an awareness of the Kingdom within.

Many keys can be found in the words of Jesus that are presented in the Bible. It was in both the Old Testament and the New Testament that I found keys unlocking my consciousness.

I have heard it said that there will also be keys contained in the forthcoming manifestation of the events of the end times. Right now they remain hidden/sealed in John's written gnosis.

The true path to union with God is found when our hearts are awakened and we are subsequently led to repent of or turn away from the life we are living in the world, just as in the story of the prodigal son. While living in the far country he was awakened to memories of His Father's House. He then repented, turned away from this life of self seeking survival, pleasure and vanity and began - fully focused on his Father - his journey Home. This is the same that is shown over and over in the Teachings of Jesus and those of His disciples. We must leave all behind, all that we are attached to in this world, all that is mammon - which is more than mere money - it is all material possessions, all worldly relationships. We must deny our self, pick up our cross, and follow Him.

We have not yet repented if our focus is on anything in this world - house, hobbies, church, spouse, friends, children (Not that we relinquish our proper responsibilities for others, just our attachment to them. And this is not easy. Remember the rich young man? Paul also talks about this in his epistles. Dead to self. Alive in Christ!).

We cannot serve two masters, we cannot serve this world and God and His Kingdom at the same time. And His Kingdom is not of this world. Service while in this world, though, is essential, for the path Home is walked in loving service on behalf of all of humanity. However our concept of service - how best to serve humanity - changes as we progress in our journey.

4. Jesus died in two ways. He died to his ego, "it is finished." And His physical body died, but He only experienced the physical death process up to a certain point. Did not his Spirit leave his body upon His command and not by force upon physical death?

5. The mysteries aren’t necessary for union with God. They are the knowings that we accumulate as we draw near. The glass gets a little less dim as we journey until finally we see face to face. In past times, though, this has been a slow journey. But it is said, is it not, that for some of us this will occur in a twinkling of an eye with the return of Christ? It is also said though they few will have repented and be ready.

This is a journey of the heart and wherever your treasure is so is your heart. If your treasure is still in this temporal world of life and death – career, house, children, hobbies, friends, church – then that is what you will receive. But if your treasure is the Kingdom that can be found within – the Eternal world of Life, then this you will receive.


He who loves the world does not have the Love of the Father in him.


vivian
Vivian, I noted in a previous post that you stated that Jesus did not "taste" physical death, in that He released His spirit prior to that. However, I wonder what you do with the following verse:

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man." Hebrews 2:9

Now, what is this verse saying when taken literally, without imputing any mystical interpretation?

It is saying that for the very purpose of experiencing death, Jesus Christ (the Second Person of a Tri-Personal Godhead) came into the world. He endured the humiliation of becoming human, even taking upon Himself a nature lower than that of angels (for He was the creator of angels as well as man). And having taken on the human nature, He endured the humiliating death of crucifixion - enduring every physical component of that suffering - on behalf of "every man," thus providing an atonement for the sins of the "whole world."

As a Christian, I believe he not only endured this agonizing physical death, but that He endured the equivalent of an eternity in Hell on our behalf. Thus, having satisfied the justice of God through His atoning sacrifice, He acts now as our High Priest and Intercessor before the throne of grace - and His righteousness is imputed to all Who place their faith in Him.

After reading through your postings several times, I see elements of Christian Science, Religious Science, I AM, the White Brotherhood, Unity, and other Gnostic sects. I'm interested in your background (pertaining to your religious upbringing) before you came to achieve this special gnosis awareness.

Thank for responding.

[Vivian]

Vivian, I noted in a previous post that you stated that Jesus did not "taste" physical death, in that He released His spirit prior to that.

The first time this was heard was at a Bible Study at my church.

Also note that according to Scripture the Romans were surprised at His rather quick demise on the cross.


However, I wonder what you do with the following verse:

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man." Hebrews 2:9

Now, what is this verse saying when taken literally, without imputing any mystical interpretation?

It is saying that for the very purpose of experiencing death, Jesus Christ (the Second Person of a Tri-Personal Godhead) came into the world. He endured the humiliation of becoming human, even taking upon Himself a nature lower than that of angels (for He was the creator of angels as well as man). And having taken on the human nature, He endured the humiliating death of crucifixion - enduring every physical component of that suffering - on behalf of "every man," thus providing an atonement for the sins of the "whole world."

As a Christian, I believe he not only endured this agonizing physical death, but that He endured the equivalent of an eternity in Hell on our behalf. Thus, having satisfied the justice of God through His atoning sacrifice, He acts now as our High Priest and Intercessor before the throne of grace - and His righteousness is imputed to all Who place their faith in Him.

If not mystical interpretation, may I use the Bible?

It was also taught at numerous Bible studies that Jesus repeatedly told his listeners that they were confused about life and death. For one, He frequently refers to those "living" in this world as the dead, and in the parable of the prodigal son, the father rejoices when his son returns from the far country declaring that he was dead but now is alive.

If I may offer, Crusader, Jesus came to teach us about True Life. What we think of as life and death are both just part of the Spiritual Death that came upon us when we fell.

Consider the following -

Through the tender mercy of our God,
With which the Dayspring from on high has visited us;
To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death,
To guide our feet into the way of peace.

The shadow of death is not the threat of physical death, but the shadow of our Spiritual Death. It is here in this physical world that we sit in darkness.


Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Jesus died spiritually – had his consciousness veiled - so that He could be born into the physical world. Being Spiritually Dead means having no contact with the Living.

Then another of His disciples said to Him, "Lord, let me first go and bury my father." But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead."

Jesus is saying let the spiritually dead deal with the cycle of physical life and death. You come follow me and find Life.

And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' And they began to be merry.


Christ came from the Living (Heaven) to the Dead (physical earth veiled from the awareness of Spiritual Heaven) to offer Spiritual healing and Life -


"For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.'"

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself "

We are the dead - even though living in live physical bodies, who in hearing the voice of the Son and believing in Him, can pass from Spiritual Death to Life.

Jesus came for souls. Not for physical bodies. Although the “raising” or better said transforming of the physical body is a part of Resurrection, it is the Resurrection from Spiritual Death to Spiritual Life that is the testimony of our Lord Jesus.

All the mentions in Paul’s epistles about Christ being raised from the dead are referring to Jesus passing from the fallen Spiritual Death found in this physical world, to Spiritual Life.

Read 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul tries to communicate this to the Corinthians.

Blessed are the dead (all of us in the physical world) who die (death or denial of self) in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

And I saw the dead (all of fallen humanity), great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So if we look again at Hebrews 2:9 (But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.)we see that the author (Paul or ?) when speaking of the suffering of death is referring to Spiritual Death - falling from Heaven or the taking on of physical form, becoming flesh and veiled from the awareness of the Spiritual - to taste of the Death that everyman experiences. John spoke of the same in the beginning of his Gospel.


After reading through your postings several times, I see elements of Christian Science, Religious Science, I AM, the White Brotherhood, Unity, and other Gnostic sects. I'm interested in your background (pertaining to your religious upbringing) before you came to achieve this special gnosis awareness.

No problem. I am glad to share.

I was born into a Mormon home although my parents rarely participated in church activities. But when my hunger for God was awakened that is where I went.

However, their message did not resonate and I quit attending after High School.

There was a time in my twenties when I searched for God and found a heart understanding that was in essence Taoism. Due to the programming experienced as a child of the West in a Christian culture, anything that had its origins in Eastern spirituality was repugnant, so I rejected this Knowing in my heart and lived a Godless existence for about a decade.

Then I began attending a large fundamental Christian church in my area. Although not everything learned resonated, it was not overly troubling and over the next decade I attended multiple Bible studies and eventually began taking Survey classes at a Christian University.

Then one day while studying Acts, I heard a quiet voice in my head. This sent me on an intensive 18 month inner search for Jesus/God/Truth. During this time, there was an occasional voice heard, which was thought to be Jesus. But what is more important is the indescribable inner awakening. The Bible came alive with multiple depths of meanings each time read.

I was still a part of my church, but eventually had to look beyond them for a real spiritual family, so I began to search on the internet for others with similar revealings. Again because of the programming from my culture and religion, only the Judeo-Christian arena felt comfortable and I ended up connecting with some academic Messianic rabbis.

There was much to learn from them, but nothing completely satisfied. I eventually stopped attending church and associating with the messianics. At this point the awakening within began to accelerate.

The prejudices against other religious traditions began to fade and for the first time, I could see the thread of Truth existing in multiple spiritual traditions.

And at this point, other earnest seekers were also found.


But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. Therefore He says:
"Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light."



Thank for responding.
:wink:

You’re welcome.


vivian

[Krusader]

The first time this was heard was at a Bible Study at my church.

Also note that according to Scripture the Romans were surprised at His rather quick demise on the cross.




If not mystical interpretation, may I use the Bible?

It was also taught at numerous Bible studies that Jesus repeatedly told his listeners that they were confused about life and death. For one, He frequently refers to those "living" in this world as the dead, and in the parable of the prodigal son, the father rejoices when his son returns from the far country declaring that he was dead but now is alive.

If I may offer, Crusader, Jesus came to teach us about True Life. What we think of as life and death are both just part of the Spiritual Death that came upon us when we fell.

Consider the following -

Through the tender mercy of our God,
With which the Dayspring from on high has visited us;
To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death,
To guide our feet into the way of peace.

The shadow of death is not the threat of physical death, but the shadow of our Spiritual Death. It is here in this physical world that we sit in darkness.


Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Jesus died spiritually – had his consciousness veiled - so that He could be born into the physical world. Being Spiritually Dead means having no contact with the Living.

Then another of His disciples said to Him, "Lord, let me first go and bury my father." But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead."

Jesus is saying let the spiritually dead deal with the cycle of physical life and death. You come follow me and find Life.

And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' And they began to be merry.


Christ came from the Living (Heaven) to the Dead (physical earth veiled from the awareness of Spiritual Heaven) to offer Spiritual healing and Life -


"For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.'"

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself "

We are the dead - even though living in live physical bodies, who in hearing the voice of the Son and believing in Him, can pass from Spiritual Death to Life.

Jesus came for souls. Not for physical bodies. Although the “raising” or better said transforming of the physical body is a part of Resurrection, it is the Resurrection from Spiritual Death to Spiritual Life that is the testimony of our Lord Jesus.

All the mentions in Paul’s epistles about Christ being raised from the dead are referring to Jesus passing from the fallen Spiritual Death found in this physical world, to Spiritual Life.

Read 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul tries to communicate this to the Corinthians.

Blessed are the dead (all of us in the physical world) who die (death or denial of self) in the Lord from now on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

And I saw the dead (all of fallen humanity), great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So if we look again at Hebrews 2:9 (But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.)we see that the author (Paul or ?) when speaking of the suffering of death is referring to Spiritual Death - falling from Heaven or the taking on of physical form, becoming flesh and veiled from the awareness of the Spiritual - to taste of the Death that everyman experiences. John spoke of the same in the beginning of his Gospel.




No problem. I am glad to share.

I was born into a Mormon home although my parents rarely participated in church activities. But when my hunger for God was awakened that is where I went.

However, their message did not resonate and I quit attending after High School.

There was a time in my twenties when I searched for God and found a heart understanding that was in essence Taoism. Due to the programming experienced as a child of the West in a Christian culture, anything that had its origins in Eastern spirituality was repugnant, so I rejected this Knowing in my heart and lived a Godless existence for about a decade.

Then I began attending a large fundamental Christian church in my area. Although not everything learned resonated, it was not overly troubling and over the next decade I attended multiple Bible studies and eventually began taking Survey classes at a Christian University.

Then one day while studying Acts, I heard a quiet voice in my head. This sent me on an intensive 18 month inner search for Jesus/God/Truth. During this time, there was an occasional voice heard, which was thought to be Jesus. But what is more important is the indescribable inner awakening. The Bible came alive with multiple depths of meanings each time read.

I was still a part of my church, but eventually had to look beyond them for a real spiritual family, so I began to search on the internet for others with similar revealings. Again because of the programming from my culture and religion, only the Judeo-Christian arena felt comfortable and I ended up connecting with some academic Messianic rabbis.

There was much to learn from them, but nothing completely satisfied. I eventually stopped attending church and associating with the messianics. At this point the awakening within began to accelerate.

The prejudices against other religious traditions began to fade and for the first time, I could see the thread of Truth existing in multiple spiritual traditions.

And at this point, other earnest seekers were also found.


But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. Therefore He says:
"Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light."




:wink:

You’re welcome.


vivian
Well, thanks for that Vivian. I know what I'm going to say is controversial, and may take a lot of hits out there, but so be it.

Vivian, Mormonism is a cult. It began with the occultic activities of Joseph Smith (glass looking, treasure digging, Jupiter talisman, etc.), and grew to be the largest pseudo-Christian group we have in the U.S. today. Now, I'm not going to argue with you about Mormonism. There is a good site called "Let Us Reason" Ministries on the web which can go into greater detail, or "Utah Lighthouse" ministries as well. However, any involvement in a cult can lead to occult bondage.

Having worked in apologetics for many years, I have often seen the phenomenom of cross-over, or a person moving from one cult to another. Without a good foundation in Christian doctrine in childhood as you were growing up (after all, you were raised Mormon), it was easy for you to be deceived by other pseudo isms.

You say that you went to a fundamentalist church (what kind?) but were still seeking more and deeper spiritual experiences. This led you to the internet, to occult teachers, and now here you are.

You say you learned a lot in "bible studies," but what you say doesn't fit with fundamentalist or evangelical bible studies. Regardless of these bible studies, you need to always evaluate what you are being taught by God's Word.

You are right about spiritually dead humans. All humans are born spiritually dead due to the Fall of Man in the Garden of Eden. Not that they have no spirits, but that the spirit nature (the spirit man) is dead to God. This is why humans must, by God's grace, be born-again spiritually - God brings their spirits to life so that the spirit may have fellowship with God. We are told that it is faith in Christ that brings us into fellowship with God, through the regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

However, the physical body also looks forward to eternal life, in that at the Last Day our bodies will be made like unto Christ's own glorious body. Ultimate redemption is not only of our spirits, but of our bodies as well.

I know you believe in reincarnation (however, this negates the atoning work of Christ), but if that is true, which body would your spirit inhabit?

Jesus' death upon the cross was very physical - but he also endured the equivalent of an eternity in hell for us - to pay the price for our sins: "the wages of sin is death." There are two deaths: one physical, one spiritual. There can be two births: one physical one spiritual. As they say, born once, die twice; born twice, die once.

It's been interesting discussing these things with you. I would urge you to again fellowship with Christians, or possibly share you beliefs with a Christian pastor. Calvary Chapels are a good evangelical denomination, and I'm sure you'd be comfortable speaking to Christians from that group.

Take Care!

[Vivian]

Well, thanks for that Vivian. I know what I'm going to say is controversial, and may take a lot of hits out there, but so be it.

Vivian, Mormonism is a cult. It began with the occultic activities of Joseph Smith (glass looking, treasure digging, Jupiter talisman, etc.), and grew to be the largest pseudo-Christian group we have in the U.S. today. Now, I'm not going to argue with you about Mormonism. There is a good site called "Let Us Reason" Ministries on the web which can go into greater detail, or "Utah Lighthouse" ministries as well. However, any involvement in a cult can lead to occult bondage.

Having worked in apologetics for many years, I have often seen the phenomenom of cross-over, or a person moving from one cult to another. Without a good foundation in Christian doctrine in childhood as you were growing up (after all, you were raised Mormon), it was easy for you to be deceived by other pseudo isms.

You say that you went to a fundamentalist church (what kind?) but were still seeking more and deeper spiritual experiences. This led you to the internet, to occult teachers, and now here you are.

You say you learned a lot in "bible studies," but what you say doesn't fit with fundamentalist or evangelical bible studies. Regardless of these bible studies, you need to always evaluate what you are being taught by God's Word.

You are right about spiritually dead humans. All humans are born spiritually dead due to the Fall of Man in the Garden of Eden. Not that they have no spirits, but that the spirit nature (the spirit man) is dead to God. This is why humans must, by God's grace, be born-again spiritually - God brings their spirits to life so that the spirit may have fellowship with God. We are told that it is faith in Christ that brings us into fellowship with God, through the regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

However, the physical body also looks forward to eternal life, in that at the Last Day our bodies will be made like unto Christ's own glorious body. Ultimate redemption is not only of our spirits, but of our bodies as well.

I know you believe in reincarnation (however, this negates the atoning work of Christ), but if that is true, which body would your spirit inhabit?

Jesus' death upon the cross was very physical - but he also endured the equivalent of an eternity in hell for us - to pay the price for our sins: "the wages of sin is death." There are two deaths: one physical, one spiritual. There can be two births: one physical one spiritual. As they say, born once, die twice; born twice, die once.

It's been interesting discussing these things with you. I would urge you to again fellowship with Christians, or possibly share you beliefs with a Christian pastor. Calvary Chapels are a good evangelical denomination, and I'm sure you'd be comfortable speaking to Christians from that group.

Take Care!


Oh my!

Yes, Crusader, I know about Mormons. This religion is influenced by an Archon, which is darker than any aeon creation of man.

Funny how you took the focus away from Truth and lowered it to a personal level.

I'll just ignore that part of your post and answer the one question you posed.

What body will our spirit inhabit?

Depends on what realm we are in. The densest realms will require a physical body to be able interact with other physical beings. Like Jesus, though, we will be able to materialize and dematerialize at will. So we can create whatever physical body we desire. If you noted, sometimes Jesus chose to clothe himself in a physical body that was unrecognizable by those who had known him before his Resurrection.

We will move between realms though in a Light Body, such as the ones Peter, James, and John witnessed Moses and Elijah clothed in. These are the wedding garments necessary for unity in Christ.

With each life we live the personality leaves markers on our soul based on the Law of reaping what you sow. Some call this karma...so that all the personalities that we are clothed in are related in one continuous chain. The reason for the cycle of physical life and death is God's Mercy. For after a while, we become so stuck in our energy habits, that we will never find freedom with a given personality. Hence the mercifulness of being able to start afresh with a new one.

The increasing darkness of the world necessitated the decreasing of man's life span as we see mentioned in the Old Tesatment.


vivian

[Vivian]

There are many enquiring minds but few hungry souls. There are many
people who are interested intellectually in the teachings, but few
real seekers. There are many people who enjoy discovering new
knowledge, but few in sincere search of Truth.


Some people assume that they can go from one teaching to another,
collect bits and pieces from many of them, and thereby arrive at
Truth. But if the mind is the one that collects the pieces, then the
truths that are arrived at are dependent upon the capacity of the
mind, and no mind is capable of encompassing transcendent,
intuitional Truth. Rather, "mind" is precisely what is absent when
Truth is arrived at. No amount of collecting pieces of knowledge is
going to serve the purpose of arriving at a knowledge of the divine
Reality.


Some people claim that they can connect with intuitional Reality by
means of their reading and their study. But if they really did this,
if they really had transcended intellectual knowledge through their
studying, they would no longer need their books and their reading.
For Truth would transcend all the knowledge that they had found
within the books. They would then be focussed on that intuitional,
divine Reality, and not further study. They would be looking for
Truth and not the accumulation of knowledge. They would be focussed
on the Wisdom that emanates from their own heart, and not upon any
outer teaching.


Other people choose to delve deeply into their chosen teaching.
Seeing that the writings they have are from some great teacher,
initiate, or Master, they choose to hold those teachings above all
others. They use the words as a touchstone; if something is in
agreement with their teaching, then it is true, and if something is
not in agreement with their teaching it is false. But again, if it is
folly to imagine that the mind can encompass transcendent Truth, it
is even greater folly to imagine that a book can. Such people lean on
the teachings like a man with a broken leg leans on crutches. The
books may be written by a Master or great initiate, but they are
nevertheless at best guides for us to come into a direct realization
of Truth, and we cannot accept any substitute, however accurate and
mirrorlike that reflection may be.


For Truth does not exist in this world. It cannot be found in this
realm of illusion, for anything that can be said within that realm
must of necessity itself be illusion, and not divine Truth. Truth
only exists in its on divine Reality, within the ineffable,
transcendent, Universe. And that Universe can only be contacted
through the heart.


The sacred books, then, are illusions. The thought forms that are
conveyed by the books also exist within the realm of the personality,
and are also illusions. The knowledge obtained by reading the books
is also of the mind, and is also illusory. But the Word that emanates
from the heart radiates from that inner, divine Universe that is
beyond the veils of illusion. That Word is itself Reality. That Word
is Truth. That Word is God.


Some say that it is dangerous to listen to the heart, for the heart
might deceive us, and lead us astray. For even if the words are
correct, they say, we might not interpret them accurately and thus be
misled. It is safer, they say, to follow the books we know that are
written by our Initiate. But this is like saying that the light of
the sun cannot be seen, so we must trust to the light of the moon.
Books can only at best be a reflection of the divine Reality; is it
not the path of Wisdom to seek the source of Truth? The heart can
indeed be known and listened to; that is the message of all the
mystics down the ages. And if the message of the heart can be known,
then no other message will do. For what was true and appropriate a
century ago, or a decade ago, or sometimes even a second ago, will
not serve.


If we intend to meet, as some say they do, the "immediate need" and
the Plan "as it exists today" then we must be capable of ascertaining
that need and that Plan today. What was said yesterday about the Plan
in books and words was wise and good yesterday, but may not be so
today. Yet so many students determine what the Plan is by reading
books that were written long before they were born. Is it not clear
that the world has changed since then? That what would be of great
service at one time would be wholly inappropriate at another? And
that the only path to know what will serve in this moment is a direct
appreciation of the heart, of Truth, and of the Plan that IS Truth in
manifestation.


And still there are some that say to listen to the heart is wrong,
for if we listen to the heart we are turning away from the sacred
teachings, and just forming our own philosophy. We are only getting
lost in our own imagination, they say. These people have not tried
listening to the heart; they cannot speak from experience. For if
they did, they would discover that listening to the Heart is to
listen to the Christ within. And there is only one Christ
consciousness. Thus when the heart is listened to by various people,
they hear the same message, they discover the same Truth, and they
connect to the same Reality. That Reality is the very source from
which all the esoteric, gnostic, and occult teachings spring. That
Reality is the everlasting fountain of knowledge that every Initiate
has drawn from. Thus to follow the heart is not turning away from the
teachings, but is instead fulfilling them, for all the esoteric
teachings have proclaimed that the real Truth is esoteric, hidden,
and a "mystery." When we discover the Truth in our hearts that
mystery is uncovered, and the hidden and secret teachings of all the
ages are revealed.


Then there is no longer any need to go out and search for truth.
There is no longer much need to read books. There is no longer any
concern about studying. For when the divine Knower within is
contacted, we can trust that we will come into contact with all the
divine Wisdom we need. The heart will reveal what is necessary for us
to know. And that which we discover will be found to be every bit as
revelatory as anything we have ever read in any book or heard from
any Teacher, no matter what great Avatar wrote or said it.


There are those who say that this is all fine and well, but that they
cannot hear what the heart has to say, and so it is easier and better
for them to just read the books. What is missing here is earnest
seeking. They don't really seek anything more than the books that
they have, so they give up before they even start. They are often
happy with their teaching, and are afraid that they will hear
something they don't want to hear from the heart. But the heart can
be heard. If we accept that it can be heard, then we must also accept
that it can be heard by ourselves. The "voice of the silence" sounds
louder when it is earnestly sought. Those who seek it lukewarmly will
not hear much. Those who are satisfied with what they know will hear
very little. Those without love will hear nothing at all. Only when
we seek Truth and Reality without compromise, and understand that
Truth cannot be ascertained in any other way, will we find the heart
speaking to us clearly.

[Krusader]

There are many enquiring minds but few hungry souls. There are many
people who are interested intellectually in the teachings, but few
real seekers. There are many people who enjoy discovering new
knowledge, but few in sincere search of Truth.


Some people assume that they can go from one teaching to another,
collect bits and pieces from many of them, and thereby arrive at
Truth. But if the mind is the one that collects the pieces, then the
truths that are arrived at are dependent upon the capacity of the
mind, and no mind is capable of encompassing transcendent,
intuitional Truth. Rather, "mind" is precisely what is absent when
Truth is arrived at. No amount of collecting pieces of knowledge is
going to serve the purpose of arriving at a knowledge of the divine
Reality.


Some people claim that they can connect with intuitional Reality by
means of their reading and their study. But if they really did this,
if they really had transcended intellectual knowledge through their
studying, they would no longer need their books and their reading.
For Truth would transcend all the knowledge that they had found
within the books. They would then be focussed on that intuitional,
divine Reality, and not further study. They would be looking for
Truth and not the accumulation of knowledge. They would be focussed
on the Wisdom that emanates from their own heart, and not upon any
outer teaching.


Other people choose to delve deeply into their chosen teaching.
Seeing that the writings they have are from some great teacher,
initiate, or Master, they choose to hold those teachings above all
others. They use the words as a touchstone; if something is in
agreement with their teaching, then it is true, and if something is
not in agreement with their teaching it is false. But again, if it is
folly to imagine that the mind can encompass transcendent Truth, it
is even greater folly to imagine that a book can. Such people lean on
the teachings like a man with a broken leg leans on crutches. The
books may be written by a Master or great initiate, but they are
nevertheless at best guides for us to come into a direct realization
of Truth, and we cannot accept any substitute, however accurate and
mirrorlike that reflection may be.


For Truth does not exist in this world. It cannot be found in this
realm of illusion, for anything that can be said within that realm
must of necessity itself be illusion, and not divine Truth. Truth
only exists in its on divine Reality, within the ineffable,
transcendent, Universe. And that Universe can only be contacted
through the heart.


The sacred books, then, are illusions. The thought forms that are
conveyed by the books also exist within the realm of the personality,
and are also illusions. The knowledge obtained by reading the books
is also of the mind, and is also illusory. But the Word that emanates
from the heart radiates from that inner, divine Universe that is
beyond the veils of illusion. That Word is itself Reality. That Word
is Truth. That Word is God.


Some say that it is dangerous to listen to the heart, for the heart
might deceive us, and lead us astray. For even if the words are
correct, they say, we might not interpret them accurately and thus be
misled. It is safer, they say, to follow the books we know that are
written by our Initiate. But this is like saying that the light of
the sun cannot be seen, so we must trust to the light of the moon.
Books can only at best be a reflection of the divine Reality; is it
not the path of Wisdom to seek the source of Truth? The heart can
indeed be known and listened to; that is the message of all the
mystics down the ages. And if the message of the heart can be known,
then no other message will do. For what was true and appropriate a
century ago, or a decade ago, or sometimes even a second ago, will
not serve.


If we intend to meet, as some say they do, the "immediate need" and
the Plan "as it exists today" then we must be capable of ascertaining
that need and that Plan today. What was said yesterday about the Plan
in books and words was wise and good yesterday, but may not be so
today. Yet so many students determine what the Plan is by reading
books that were written long before they were born. Is it not clear
that the world has changed since then? That what would be of great
service at one time would be wholly inappropriate at another? And
that the only path to know what will serve in this moment is a direct
appreciation of the heart, of Truth, and of the Plan that IS Truth in
manifestation.


And still there are some that say to listen to the heart is wrong,
for if we listen to the heart we are turning away from the sacred
teachings, and just forming our own philosophy. We are only getting
lost in our own imagination, they say. These people have not tried
listening to the heart; they cannot speak from experience. For if
they did, they would discover that listening to the Heart is to
listen to the Christ within. And there is only one Christ
consciousness. Thus when the heart is listened to by various people,
they hear the same message, they discover the same Truth, and they
connect to the same Reality. That Reality is the very source from
which all the esoteric, gnostic, and occult teachings spring. That
Reality is the everlasting fountain of knowledge that every Initiate
has drawn from. Thus to follow the heart is not turning away from the
teachings, but is instead fulfilling them, for all the esoteric
teachings have proclaimed that the real Truth is esoteric, hidden,
and a "mystery." When we discover the Truth in our hearts that
mystery is uncovered, and the hidden and secret teachings of all the
ages are revealed.


Then there is no longer any need to go out and search for truth.
There is no longer much need to read books. There is no longer any
concern about studying. For when the divine Knower within is
contacted, we can trust that we will come into contact with all the
divine Wisdom we need. The heart will reveal what is necessary for us
to know. And that which we discover will be found to be every bit as
revelatory as anything we have ever read in any book or heard from
any Teacher, no matter what great Avatar wrote or said it.


There are those who say that this is all fine and well, but that they
cannot hear what the heart has to say, and so it is easier and better
for them to just read the books. What is missing here is earnest
seeking. They don't really seek anything more than the books that
they have, so they give up before they even start. They are often
happy with their teaching, and are afraid that they will hear
something they don't want to hear from the heart. But the heart can
be heard. If we accept that it can be heard, then we must also accept
that it can be heard by ourselves. The "voice of the silence" sounds
louder when it is earnestly sought. Those who seek it lukewarmly will
not hear much. Those who are satisfied with what they know will hear
very little. Those without love will hear nothing at all. Only when
we seek Truth and Reality without compromise, and understand that
Truth cannot be ascertained in any other way, will we find the heart
speaking to us clearly.

But, Vivian, you really can find truth in the physical world. It was for this reason that the God/Man, Jesus Christ, was incarnated in the womb of the Virgin Mary. Jesus said He was the Truth. Jesus was a real person, who lived a real physical life, really died physically upon the cross and was resurrected in a glorified physical body.

Life is not an illusion (as Mary Baker Eddy and other Gnostic teachers believe), but we have been created to glorify God. We are a physical creation - and God has entered His physical creation to redeem it from captivity to the Evil One and sin.

You say you are in touch with spirit entities, and that these entities have taught you what you believe. However, have you tested the spirits? Have you asked them whether or not Jesus Christ (not just Jesus, but the Christ as well) has come in the flesh?

Life is not an illusion, and the "archons" and entities you speak of are not an illusion either. Demonic spirits will often impersonate saints, "ascended masters," or even relatives. It is there job to undermine the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to lead us astray. I strongly suggest you lead Lewis's "Screwtape Letters."

The Gospel you have received is "another," of which Paul wrote. I urge you to talk this over with a Christian pastor who is knowledgeable regarding the cults and the occult.

[Vivian]

But, Vivian, you really can find truth in the physical world. It was for this reason that the God/Man, Jesus Christ, was incarnated in the womb of the Virgin Mary. Jesus said He was the Truth. Jesus was a real person, who lived a real physical life, really died physically upon the cross and was resurrected in a glorified physical body.

Life is not an illusion (as Mary Baker Eddy and other Gnostic teachers believe), but we have been created to glorify God. We are a physical creation - and God has entered His physical creation to redeem it from captivity to the Evil One and sin.

You say you are in touch with spirit entities, and that these entities have taught you what you believe. However, have you tested the spirits? Have you asked them whether or not Jesus Christ (not just Jesus, but the Christ as well) has come in the flesh?

Life is not an illusion, and the "archons" and entities you speak of are not an illusion either. Demonic spirits will often impersonate saints, "ascended masters," or even relatives. It is there job to undermine the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to lead us astray. I strongly suggest you lead Lewis's "Screwtape Letters."

The Gospel you have received is "another," of which Paul wrote. I urge you to talk this over with a Christian pastor who is knowledgeable regarding the cults and the occult.

Hello Crusader,

Funny you should mention C S. Lewis. I have read his Screwtape Letters and also his stories of Narnia in which at the end it is revealed to the children that all that they thought was real was actually illusion -

Lucy said, "We're so afraid of being sent away, Aslan. And you have sent us back into our own world so often."

"No fear of that," said Aslan. "Have you not guessed?"

"There was a real railway accident," said Aslan softly. "Your father and mother and all of you are - as you used to call it in Shadowlands - dead. The term is over: the holidays have begun. The dream is ended: this is the morning."

And as He spoke, He no longer looked to them like a lion; but the things that began to happen after that were so great and beautiful that I cannot write them. And for us this is the end of all the stories, and we can most truly say that they all lived happily ever after. All their life in this world and all their adventures in Narnia had only been the cover and title page; now at last they were beginning Chapter One of the Great Story which no one on earth has read: which goes on for ever: in which every chapter is better than the one before.



Since it appears, Crusader, your soul has found contentment in the lascivious offerings of this world - which is the kingdom of lucifer, salvation awaits you in another life, perhaps in another harvest time. There is no condemnation for eventually yours and all souls will find redemption. Christ will return again and again until every last lost sheep is brought Home.

The rest of this response then is not for you but for others whose soul has stirred, awakening a realization that something is just not right.

Illusion simply means non eternal and is the same that Paul refers to in 2 Corinthians 4:18 -

So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

and Jesus in Matthew 6 -

“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Everything that is not eternal will eventually pass away. Therefore, with an eternal perspective, all that is temporary is illusion.

Jesus goes on in Matthew chapter 6 speaking of how that which is unseen can be "seen", how we can have eyes that see and ears that hear -

“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

Here He is speaking of our inner spiritual vision.


vivian

[Krusader]

Hello Crusader,

Funny you should mention C S. Lewis. I have read his Screwtape Letters and also his stories of Narnia in which at the end it is revealed to the children that all that they thought was real was actually illusion -





Since it appears, Crusader, your soul has found contentment in the lascivious offerings of this world - which is the kingdom of lucifer, salvation awaits you in another life, perhaps in another harvest time. There is no condemnation for eventually yours and all souls will find redemption. Christ will return again and again until every last lost sheep is brought Home.

The rest of this response then is not for you but for others whose soul has stirred, awakening a realization that something is just not right.

Illusion simply means non eternal and is the same that Paul refers to in 2 Corinthians 4:18 -

So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

and Jesus in Matthew 6 -

“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Everything that is not eternal will eventually pass away. Therefore, with an eternal perspective, all that is temporary is illusion.

Jesus goes on in Matthew chapter 6 speaking of how that which is unseen can be "seen", how we can have eyes that see and ears that hear -

“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

Here He is speaking of our inner spiritual vision.


vivianI think you misunderstand Lewis, Vivian. The world we live in is temporary, but it is physical as well. According to Peter, the earth and all that's in it is stored up for burning. There will be a new heaven and a new earth, we are told, wherein will dwell the Lamb upon the throne.....a New Jerusalem come down from heaven! This is what Christians yearn for - for we hope in that which is yet unseen.

Christians must see through the eyes of the Holy Spirit Who indwells all believers, gifts them with discernment and wisdom and understanding, and sets them apart to serve the Living Christ. If the Holy Spirit is not living within a person, he has no eyes to see or ears to hear - he lives in darkness, as Jesus said in Matt. 6.

A Christian does not dwell in the kingdom of Lucifer (Satan), but has been delivered from the POWER of darkness to the Kingdom of Light. Ephesians 6:12 says that the Christian must struggle against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

There is a spirit-realm of wickedness - and occassionally this realm manifests itself very vividly to those who have rejected the Gospel of the Lord. The St. Germain and other entitities who have visited you are simply a clear example of this.

[Vivian]

I think you misunderstand Lewis, Vivian. The world we live in is temporary, but it is physical as well. According to Peter, the earth and all that's in it is stored up for burning. There will be a new heaven and a new earth, we are told, wherein will dwell the Lamb upon the throne.....a New Jerusalem come down from heaven! This is what Christians yearn for - for we hope in that which is yet unseen.

Christians must see through the eyes of the Holy Spirit Who indwells all believers, gifts them with discernment and wisdom and understanding, and sets them apart to serve the Living Christ. If the Holy Spirit is not living within a person, he has no eyes to see or ears to hear - he lives in darkness, as Jesus said in Matt. 6.

A Christian does not dwell in the kingdom of Lucifer (Satan), but has been delivered from the POWER of darkness to the Kingdom of Light. Ephesians 6:12 says that the Christian must struggle against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

There is a spirit-realm of wickedness - and occassionally this realm manifests itself very vividly to those who have rejected the Gospel of the Lord. The St. Germain and other entitities who have visited you are simply a clear example of this.

I am not familiar with St. Germain - as an incarnated or discarnated being. Perhaps you misunderstood what I said.

The Good News or Gospel that John the Baptist, Jesus, and His Disciples taught was to repent for the Kingdom is at hand .

Such simplicity, yet look at how man has complicated it!



vivian

[InChristAlways]

Luke 6:41 "And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye? 42 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me remove the speck that [is] in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the plank that [is] in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother's eye.