The Name

[sonofyah]

What is the true name of the Messiah and why isnt it spoken today?

[furay]

What is the true name of the Messiah and why isnt it spoken today?

And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many diadems, and He had a name written, which no man knoweth but Himself.
-Apocalypse 19:12

[technomage]

What is the true name of the Messiah and why isnt it spoken today?

Because we don't speak Aramaic. Names translate just like words do.

[sonofyah]

Because we don't speak Aramaic. Names translate just like words do.

Is that even biblical

[technomage]

Is that even biblical

Does the Bible give linguistic rules? If not, then it's certainly not anti-Biblical.

[sonofyah]

And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many diadems, and He had a name written, which no man knoweth but Himself.
-Apocalypse 19:12

I understand what you have there but I am looking for a biblical answer. To qoute me something out of a book used by the Catholic church is a little close minded when you know Catholic meaning "universal" embraces most religions and beliefs. With that being said they have to first find out which god they want serve today. To get you on the right page read Acts 4:12, Acts 26:14, John 5:43 to name a few

[sonofyah]

Does the Bible give linguistic rules? If not, then it's certainly not anti-Biblical. In the begining was the word and the word was with YHWH and the word was YHWH. The Name came from heaven Philippians 2:9...I never said anything about language but the Apostle Paul writes in Acts 26:14 that he heard a voice speaking in the Hebrew tongue....According to the word it is a contradiction to call Him by a name that he didnt call himself...

[sonofyah]

And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many diadems, and He had a name written, which no man knoweth but Himself.
-Apocalypse 19:12

13. He was clothed with a robe
dipped in blood,
and His name is called
The Word of God.

That is the next verse in that very book....Understand that Yahshua is the Word that became flesh John 1:14

[ministerjay]

Is that even biblical

It is important to understand the difference between translation and transliteration. We willing accept and pronounce names from other languages and do not try to "translate or transliterate" those names. Pharoah is not an english name. Buddha is not an english name. There are many examples of names that have not lost their origin or their meaning that we use today, yet we have deproved the heavenly father of his heavenly spoken name and replaced it with yet another non-english word, "God". The name of the heavenly father is YHWH pronounced (Yah-Weh or Yah-Veh) due to the Hebrew letters having multiple sounds for one letter at times. This name was revealed to the Jews. They don't debate his name, only how to pronounce it...

[furay]

I understand what you have there but I am looking for a biblical answer.
Gee, and here I thought the Revelation of Jesus Christ to St John was in the Bible.

To qoute me something out of a book used by the Catholic church is a little close minded when you know Catholic meaning "universal" embraces most religions and beliefs.
No, it doesn't (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=54882).

Here's a clue, buddy, when you find yourself standing before the Dread Judgment Seat of Christ, He ain't gonna be asking you if you pronounced His Name correctly, but rather if you fed the hungry, quenched the thirsty, sheltered the strangers, clothed the naked, cared for the sick, and visited the prisoners.

[Amazing Rando]

Here's a clue, buddy, when you find yourself standing before the Dread Judgment Seat of Christ, He ain't gonna be asking you if you pronounced His Name correctly, but rather if you fed the hungry, quenched the thirsty, sheltered the strangers, clothed the naked, cared for the sick, and visited the prisoners.

:rofl:

[sonofyah]

Gee, and here I thought the Revelation of Jesus Christ to St John was in the Bible.


No, it doesn't (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=54882).

Here's a clue, buddy, when you find yourself standing before the Dread Judgment Seat of Christ, He ain't gonna be asking you if you pronounced His Name correctly, but rather if you fed the hungry, quenched the thirsty, sheltered the strangers, clothed the naked, cared for the sick, and visited the prisoners.
Romans 10 tells me something totally different buddy....but if take the time and study the 6 basic principals of Christianity(Hebrews 6:1-5) it will help you understand what YHWH wants

[technomage]

In the begining was the word and the word was with YHWH and the word was YHWH. The Name came from heaven Philippians 2:9...I never said anything about language but the Apostle Paul writes in Acts 26:14 that he heard a voice speaking in the Hebrew tongue....According to the word it is a contradiction to call Him by a name that he didnt call himself...

If that's the case, then why did Paul write "theos" in Greek?

Sonofyah, pray study the history of your text. God is called by many names and titles--to Jews and Christians alike, the importance is not in what you call YHVH, but in that you call Him.

[furay]

Are you suggesting that the epistle of St Paul to the Romans chapter 10 contradicts the Gospel according to St Matthew chapter 25? You are too much. :lol: I'm sorry, but I'm not about to take spiritual advice from someone who is so ignorant of scripture. Gimme a break!

Romans 10 tells me something totally different buddy....but if take the time and study the 6 basic principals of Christianity(Hebrews 6:1-5) it will help you understand what YHWH wants

[sonofyah]

:rofl:

Im sorry to be the one that tells you this but the book of Revelations describes to Judgements and the White Throne Judgement is what you dont want to see. Also I donot want to insult your learning but the way you have been taught is not your fault. I am going to take a minute and teach you some things. First, I want to let you Know that the Heavenly Fathers Name YHWH known in some circles as the Tetragrammaton has been replaced with that of Lord, God, and Adonai. These titles are given but are a total disrespect to the Holy Scriptures. Understand that you dont have to take my word for it. Just look it up or better yet look in the 15th paragraph of your NIV Bible Preface. What is very important is that the second book of the bible Exodus which really is "Shemoths" meaning "The Name" is where he reveals is name to Mosheh. YHWH is the Alpha and the Omega the Aleph and the Taw the begining and the end Revelations 1:8. My point is that is if you study your bible and stop taking everyones interpretation of it, you will realize that every book in the Holy Scriptures is about the name of the father and the son. If you want somewhere to start looking check here...Ex 20:24, Ex. 34:5&14, Num. 6:27, Zah 14:9, Psalm 68:4, Psalm 102:15, Ps 102:21, Ps. 111:9, 113:1, and Isaiah 30:27....You should cry out for the Holy Spirit to guide you into Truth. This is something you can do in your prayer closet. The word saids Howbeit when he come the Spirit of Truth and he shall leed and guide you into all Truth. I depend on the Holy Spirit thats why I can go into any Forum and teach, because I have the Spirit of Truth on my side. Once you find out that Truth has a Name which is Yahshua you will be made new. But like i said earlier dont take my word for it, study and show yourself approved. Acts 4:12 you can only be saved in the name of Yahshua

[technomage]

Once you find out that Truth has a Name which is Yahshua you will be made new. But like i said earlier dont take my word for it, study and show yourself approved. Acts 4:12 you can only be saved in the name of Yahshua

Well, then I guess the author of Acts wasn't saved--he wrote in Greek.

[sonofyah]

If that's the case, then why did Paul write "theos" in Greek?

Sonofyah, pray study the history of your text. God is called by many names and titles--to Jews and Christians alike, the importance is not in what you call YHVH, but in that you call Him.

If you find that he is called by many names ANYWHERE in the scriptures I will submit and repent to you. read Zech 14:9, Acts 4:12, Phil 2:9 and many more.......

[sonofyah]

Are you suggesting that the epistle of St Paul to the Romans chapter 10 contradicts the Gospel according to St Matthew chapter 25? You are too much. :lol: I'm sorry, but I'm not about to take spiritual advice from someone who is so ignorant of scripture. Gimme a break!

The word doesnt contradict but you interpretation does.

[sonofyah]

Well, then I guess the author of Acts wasn't saved--he wrote in Greek.

Luke wrote the book of Acts, fine. 2Timothy 3:16 please read. Phil 2:9 says his name came from Heaven. Study man YHWH donot respect any person or there language....

[technomage]

If you find that he is called by many names ANYWHERE in the scriptures I will submit and repent to you. read Zech 14:9, Acts 4:12, Phil 2:9 and many more.......

Try Acts 4:10: Then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

Oh, you want the original? Transliterated into Roman characters: Gnoston esto pasin umin kai panti to lao israel oti en to onomati Iesou Christou tou Nazoraiou, on umeis estauposate, on o Theos egeiren ek nekron, en touto outos paresteken enopion umon ugies. (I'm not sure the Greek will come out properly, but it's gnwston estw pasin umin kai panti tw law israhl oti en tw onomati ihsou cristou tou nazwraiou, on umeiV estaurwsate, on o qeoV hgeiren ek nekrwn, en toutw outoV paresthken enwpion umwn ugihV.

Here we have both God the Father and God the Son called by other names: in Scripture, in its original language, we have YHVH called "'o Theos," and Yahshua ha'Nosri called "Iesou Christou tou Nazoraiou."

Not enough? Jesus told his disciples to call YHVH by "Pater emon" (Greek for "Our Father", Matt 6:9). Elsewhere, He refers to YHVH as "Eli" or "Eloi" (Aramaic for "God", Matthew 27:46). Melchizedek was a priest of God under the name "El Elyon" (Hebrew for "The most high God," Gen 14:18), while YHVH Himself said to Abraham "I am El Shaddai" (Hebrew for "God Almighty, Gen 17:1).

If you wish to call upon God the Father by the name YHVH, then I doubt any person here will so much as quibble with you. But if you wish to insist that the Christians here are not "truly Christian" because they do not do as you do, then you must deny not only the words of Scripture, but the very words of Yahshua ha'Nosri, and of YHVH Himself.

[sonofyah]

Try Acts 4:10: Then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

Oh, you want the original? Transliterated into Roman characters: Gnoston esto pasin umin kai panti to lao israel oti en to onomati Iesou Christou tou Nazoraiou, on umeis estauposate, on o Theos egeiren ek nekron, en touto outos paresteken enopion umon ugies. (I'm not sure the Greek will come out properly, but it's gnwston estw pasin umin kai panti tw law israhl oti en tw onomati ihsou cristou tou nazwraiou, on umeiV estaurwsate, on o qeoV hgeiren ek nekrwn, en toutw outoV paresthken enwpion umwn ugihV.

Here we have both God the Father and God the Son called by other names: in Scripture, in its original language, we have YHVH called "'o Theos," and Yahshua ha'Nosri called "Iesou Christou tou Nazoraiou."

Not enough? Jesus told his disciples to call YHVH by "Pater emon" (Greek for "Our Father", Matt 6:9). Elsewhere, He refers to YHVH as "Eli" or "Eloi" (Aramaic for "God", Matthew 27:46). Melchizedek was a priest of God under the name "El Elyon" (Hebrew for "The most high God," Gen 14:18), while YHVH Himself said to Abraham "I am El Shaddai" (Hebrew for "God Almighty, Gen 17:1).

If you wish to call upon God the Father by the name YHVH, then I doubt any person here will so much as quibble with you. But if you wish to insist that the Christians here are not "truly Christian" because they do not do as you do, then you must deny not only the words of Scripture, but the very words of Yahshua ha'Nosri, and of YHVH Himself.

First I would like to say that I was sadly misqouted by yourself but thats easy for you because you have misqouted the word of truth also. I never said I wanted anyone to worship the way I do. I simply proposed a question. I asked YOU to show me where it says "HE IS CALLED BY MANY NAMES" anywhere in the Scriptures. You have failed, because in Shemoth(Exodus) 3:14-15 YHWH said that this is his Name forever to ALL generations. You can give any title you want to him but dont say that those titles are anything like is COVENANT NAME "YHWH". Ask yourself this one..."Why do I need a title for YHWH when he said "I AM THAT I AM". If you want the original "Ayah Asher Ayah"... Yod Hay Waw Hay. I read all of the scriptures you have proposed but you missed a couple...Please Read Yirmeyahu(Jeremiah) 23:26-27, Debarim (Deuteronomy) 28:58-59 and Apocalupsis(Revelations) 3:8. You through that word around "quibble" like you really feel that I have raised an irrelevant point. The Name of the Heavenly Father and his Son is very important to the current state of Christianity. If the Name above every Name is lost how can you truely worship him and how can you confess a Name you dont know Romans 10:9. You need to dig down deep and ask yourself "did the Holy Spirit lead you to the answer I gave" or was that your own understanding or knowledge. Knowledge is only a psycological perception of reasoning and learning. Stop reasoning with yourself and recognize TRUTH is Yahoshua Hamessiach. For there is one Name given onto men by which they must be saved Acts 4:12. Never said Names, and if you need a scripture for the father read Zech. 14:9.

1 John 4:6- We are of YHWH-the one knowing YHWH hears us. He who is not of YHWH does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of Truth and the spirit of error.

[technomage]

First I would like to say that I was sadly misqouted by yourself but thats easy for you because you have misqouted the word of truth also.

Friend, I had no intent to misquote you, but if you wish to assert that I have somehow "misquoted" the Scripture, then you must perforce argue with scripture itself. The quotes I gave you are precise, with the possible exception of the Greek transliteration into Roman characters (which I did manually, and may have erred in).

[/quote]I asked YOU to show me where it says "HE IS CALLED BY MANY NAMES" anywhere in the Scriptures.[/quote]

I never said that the Scriptures say "He is called by many names." I said "the importance is not in what you call YHVH, but in that you call Him."

You have failed, because in Shemoth(Exodus) 3:14-15 YHWH said that this is his Name forever to ALL generations.

There's a problem there, Sonofyah--unless you are of Hebrew descent, you are not elibible for that specific covenant: you and all Gentiles must work within the New Covenant. However, that is a topic for a later discussion.

You can give any title you want to him but dont say that those titles are anything like is COVENANT NAME "YHWH".

Sonofyah, re-read your scriptures, then re-read my post--these are not names that I have given YHVH. These are names from the Scriptures. Are they His covenant name? Of course not.

You through that word around "quibble" like you really feel that I have raised an irrelevant point.

Actually, if you will read what my post actually said, the only use of the word "quibble" was directed at other Christians, not at yourself. You chided me for misquoting you, and I will endeavor to take the greatest care from now on to quote you properly--I would take it as a courtesy if you would exercise the same care with my words.

The Name of the Heavenly Father and his Son is very important to the current state of Christianity. If the Name above every Name is lost how can you truely worship him and how can you confess a Name you dont know Romans 10:9.[/quote]

Sonofyah, the one point that you have not proven is that a translation of a name is "wrong."

1 John 4:6- We are of YHWH-the one knowing YHWH hears us. He who is not of YHWH does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of Truth and the spirit of error.

And why do you keep adding Hebrew when the original text was in Greek?

[sonofyah]

Friend, I had no intent to misquote you, but if you wish to assert that I have somehow "misquoted" the Scripture, then you must perforce argue with scripture itself. The quotes I gave you are precise, with the possible exception of the Greek transliteration into Roman characters (which I did manually, and may have erred in).

I asked YOU to show me where it says "HE IS CALLED BY MANY NAMES" anywhere in the Scriptures.[/quote]

I never said that the Scriptures say "He is called by many names." I said "the importance is not in what you call YHVH, but in that you call Him."



There's a problem there, Sonofyah--unless you are of Hebrew descent, you are not elibible for that specific covenant: you and all Gentiles must work within the New Covenant. However, that is a topic for a later discussion.



Sonofyah, re-read your scriptures, then re-read my post--these are not names that I have given YHVH. These are names from the Scriptures. Are they His covenant name? Of course not.



Actually, if you will read what my post actually said, the only use of the word "quibble" was directed at other Christians, not at yourself. You chided me for misquoting you, and I will endeavor to take the greatest care from now on to quote you properly--I would take it as a courtesy if you would exercise the same care with my words.

The Name of the Heavenly Father and his Son is very important to the current state of Christianity. If the Name above every Name is lost how can you truely worship him and how can you confess a Name you dont know Romans 10:9.[/quote]

Sonofyah, the one point that you have not proven is that a translation of a name is "wrong."



And why do you keep adding Hebrew when the original text was in Greek?[/QUOTE]

[sonofyah]

I asked YOU to show me where it says "HE IS CALLED BY MANY NAMES" anywhere in the Scriptures.

I never said that the Scriptures say "He is called by many names." I said "the importance is not in what you call YHVH, but in that you call Him."



There's a problem there, Sonofyah--unless you are of Hebrew descent, you are not elibible for that specific covenant: you and all Gentiles must work within the New Covenant. However, that is a topic for a later discussion.



Sonofyah, re-read your scriptures, then re-read my post--these are not names that I have given YHVH. These are names from the Scriptures. Are they His covenant name? Of course not.



Actually, if you will read what my post actually said, the only use of the word "quibble" was directed at other Christians, not at yourself. You chided me for misquoting you, and I will endeavor to take the greatest care from now on to quote you properly--I would take it as a courtesy if you would exercise the same care with my words.

The Name of the Heavenly Father and his Son is very important to the current state of Christianity. If the Name above every Name is lost how can you truely worship him and how can you confess a Name you dont know Romans 10:9.[/quote]

Sonofyah, the one point that you have not proven is that a translation of a name is "wrong."



And why do you keep adding Hebrew when the original text was in Greek?[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I would like to say one thing. Proving the translation is incorrect is not my passion. I want you to open your mind a little. Since you are not reading the scriptures I am giving you, I will just type it out.

Philipians 2:8-9-And having been found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, death even of the stake. 9- Elohim therefore, has highly exalted Him and given him a Name which is above every Name....

The scriptures clearly state that the Name above every Name comes from Heaven. There is no translation or transliteration that will suffice.

Ibrim(Hebrews) 13:8- Yahshua Messiah is the same yesterday, today, and forever. 9 Do not be borne about various and strange teachings. For it is good for the heart to be established by favour, not with foods which have not profited those who have occupied with them.

Last scripture:

Malachi 3:6- For I am YHWH, I shall not change.....

Recognize in these scripture he is clearly stating that there is no way I YHWH Elohim will allow my Name to be broken down into earthly understanding, language or culture. Yes, you are right he is the Elohim of the Hebrew but read carefully in Galatians 3, Faith takes the Gentile or Heathen to a greater blessing.

P.S My name is Abram or Avram meaning "exalted father"

[technomage]

I would like to say one thing. Proving the translation is incorrect is not my passion. I want you to open your mind a little. Since you are not reading the scriptures I am giving you, I will just type it out.

Philipians 2:8-9-And having been found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, death even of the stake. 9- Elohim therefore, has highly exalted Him and given him a Name which is above every Name....

The scriptures clearly state that the Name above every Name comes from Heaven. There is no translation or transliteration that will suffice.

If we are to believe this verse, and if the act of giving Him a Name which is aboveevery Name is correct, then it is not the Name by which He was known on earth--because the giving of this name above every Name occurred after His death.

And again--you insert a Hebrew word where the original was Greek.

Why do you insert Hebrew words when the New Testament originals were written in Greek?

[semmie]

sonofyah,

welcome to the board. i'm sarah.

out of curiosity, are you familiar with greek at all?

and...are you familiar with the difference between translation and transliteration?

and...what is it about saying "yahshua" that you fear we have missed by saying "jesus" ? or...do you hold that the name "jesus" has pagan roots?

good topic.

again, welcome to the board.
~sarah

[semmie]

It is important to understand the difference between translation and transliteration. We willing accept and pronounce names from other languages and do not try to "translate or transliterate" those names. Pharoah is not an english name. Buddha is not an english name. There are many examples of names that have not lost their origin or their meaning that we use today, yet we have deproved the heavenly father of his heavenly spoken name and replaced it with yet another non-english word, "God". The name of the heavenly father is YHWH pronounced (Yah-Weh or Yah-Veh) due to the Hebrew letters having multiple sounds for one letter at times. This name was revealed to the Jews. They don't debate his name, only how to pronounce it...
hey jay!

i wanted to apologize for missing your post earlier; and i wanted to take a quick moment to greet you. i'm sarah, and i'm delighted to see you here at Tweb. a couple of questions for ya, if i may.

1--do you associate with the Sacred Name Movement, or are you just one of those rare Christians who believes that god has a name and we should know and use it?

2--are you familiar with the history of the name and its use by jews? specifically, do you know when and why the jews stopped using it?

3--what, in your opinion, does a believer lack if she does not know or speak the tetragrammaton?

i surely hope you'll stick around Tweb for awhile, jay...this is a great topic, and i'd love to hear your thoughts on it!

~sarah

[sonofyah]

sonofyah,

welcome to the board. i'm sarah.

out of curiosity, are you familiar with greek at all?

and...are you familiar with the difference between translation and transliteration?

and...what is it about saying "yahshua" that you fear we have missed by saying "jesus" ? or...do you hold that the name "jesus" has pagan roots?

good topic.

again, welcome to the board.
~sarah

To answer your question Yes I am familiar with the Greek Theous, Theon, and Logos....I want you to come from a spiritual stand point and get out of the language box. I gave a scripture that says that the Name came from heaven-Phil 2:9. This is spiritual not earthly.

Another point I want to give and I hope "a cup of mystery" is looking @ this....Acts 26:14- And when we had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me? Its hard for you to kick against the prods. And I said Who are you, Master? And he said I am Yahshua, whom you persecute.

Now text is written by Luke in Greek, but he understands that the truth is that Saul heard a voice in the HEBREW in the middle of your precious GREEK text. Truth is Truth. Its impossible for the Messiah to call himself Jesus. The name jesus has a begining and an end. Jesus is an english name. The english langauge is only 500 years old. The Messiah walked this earth 2000 years ago. History teaches us that its impossible for the messiahs name to be jesus. It doesn't add up. There is not a single Theologian with a half a brain that will debate that. Just read the scripture I gave. He never called himself Jesus so why should we.

In the book of Mattithyahu (Matthew) 1:21 his name will mean that he will save his people. John 5:43 states that he comes in his Fathers Name. There is only one logical and spiritual explaination for that...."Shua" meaning Salvation and "Yah" the shorten form of heavenly fathers name....Yahshua...meaning the salvation of YHWH.

Thank You very much for welcoming me.

[sonofyah]

If we are to believe this verse, and if the act of giving Him a Name which is aboveevery Name is correct, then it is not the Name by which He was known on earth--because the giving of this name above every Name occurred after His death.

And again--you insert a Hebrew word where the original was Greek.

Why do you insert Hebrew words when the New Testament originals were written in Greek?

If you believe that his name was not presented until after his death you are not hearing from the Holy Spirit. You probably believe he born on christmas and he died on easter too....lol...you are propabably under the same spell the Samarians were under by Simon Magnus Acts 8...the first Pope.

Just a joke....lol

Do you know who Hiram Abiff is? I'm trying to figure you out. The reason I asked is because you said you are a Wiccan (some of which embraces Freemasonry) and that can mean that you were once jaded by the Christian faith...your debating style comes from an angle that doesnot embrace the voice of the Holy Spirit. You see, I present scripture that you are obviously not reading, because the word doesnot contradict. That means one of us is not hearing from the Ruach Hacodesh. See, its very important for you to be in the Spirit because the Scriptures say that YHWH is a Spirit and those who worship him worship him in spirit and in truth. You have to be Set-Apart young man. You have knowledge but you are crying out for answers. You most certainly do not have to tell me I'm right or wrong about that statement but I want you read the scriptures from a Spiritual standpoint and witness on how different it will be. Proving your way is right or wrong is not my focus. I'm here to spread the truth. I know, and you know its the truth so stop fighting me with Hebrew vs Greek.
The fact is hypothetically speaking....If your name is Rick and you visit another country outside of the US where your not known. You find yourself walking in a shopping area and someone calls you John. Do you answer? The fact is your mother and your father never gave you that name so you will not respond. The Messiahs name should not be transfered letter for letter from one language to the next. To transliterate the Name is a total disrepect and I hope a lot of people view this posting because Christianity needs to go to another level in the right Name. Its time out for what the King James version said. Recognize what YHWH is saying. If you like to study check out the year the King James bible first came into exisitence. 1611 was the year. Get a copy and read it. There is NO Jesus there. The "j" was not invented yet. The "J" was a mistake on the printing press. If you look at the Alphabet closely you will see it clearly that the "I,i" and the "J,j" look alike.....there is no other language besides the English that have a J sound within it. Satans best trick was not convincing the world he didn't exist it was changing the names of the father and the son. How can you rebuke him in the name of jesus. He will laugh at you. Recognize that Satan is the master of confusion not of mind control. The word says let this mind be in you that is also in Messiah. If you give ear to satan he will tell to tell me there is a differnt name in the Greek, Latin and Hebrew.

This is an imporant point:

Its funny how Satans name never changes from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant. Its also funny how Adam is still Adam in the Hebrew and the Greek. Yerushalayim is still Yerushalayim. Moshe is still Moshe. Abraham is still Abraham.

THE ONLY NAMES THAT WERE TRANSLITERATED ARE THE NAMES WE NEED THE MOST.

THINK ABOUT IT

[YHWH BLESS]

You Are Very Sharp In Your Teaching Sonofyah!
Minister Quamid Is On Board!

[sonofyah]

You Are Very Sharp In Your Teaching Sonofyah!
Minister Quamid Is On Board!
Thank You Minister.

[technomage]

If you believe that his name was not presented until after his death you are not hearing from the Holy Spirit.

For all of this, you did not answer my question. The New Testament was originally written in Greek, and contained no Hebrew words. Why are you changing the words of Scripture.

And no--I am not a Mason.

[sonofyah]

For all of this, you did not answer my question. The New Testament was originally written in Greek, and contained no Hebrew words. Why are you changing the words of Scripture.

And no--I am not a Mason.

Ok. It seems you are running from this scripture Acts 26:14,15. What did the Messiah call himself?

[technomage]

Ok. It seems you are running from this scripture Acts 26:14,15. What did the Messiah call himself?

Either Yehoshua or the shortened version, Y'shua. Yet the author of Acts wrote the account in Greek, using Iesous.

One more time, Abram: why are you changing Scripture by inserting Hebrew words in place of the Greek?

[sonofyah]

Ok. It seems you are running from this scripture Acts 26:14,15. What did the Messiah call himself?

I guess Luke meant to say Saul heard a voice in the Greek tongue.....lol

You are so funny

There is only one name given unto men by which they must be saved Acts 4:12. Please explain "a cup of mystery"

Don't run!

Was Joseph or Miryam Greek or Hebrew?

Don't run!

How did the Messenger of YHWH Elohim communicate with Joseph the Son of David in his dream?

Don't run!

Do you want your name to change after you die?

Your answer to the last question doesn't really matter but tell me did the Messiah say any where in the Scriptures that he wanted his name to change?

There is only 2 traditions Christians should keep after the death. Baptism and Communion.

Not changing his Name.

[technomage]

I guess Luke meant to say Saul heard a voice in the Greek tongue.....lol

Absolutely not. Yet when the author of Acts wrote the name, he used Iesous. If you wish to state that translating Yehoshua to Iesous was wrong in the eyes of God, then you must deny the authority of scriptures.

Don't run!

You tell me "Don't run," yet again and again you evade my question.

Why do you change Scripture by substituting Hebrew words for the Greek of the New Testament?

[Sparko]

I moved this to Unorthodox Theology. It sure did not belong in Christianity 201. Note to Justin: you should not have been posting in the thread in Christianity 201, watch it next time!

[sonofyah]

Either Yehoshua or the shortened version, Y'shua. Yet the author of Acts wrote the account in Greek, using Iesous.

One more time, Abram: why are you changing Scripture by inserting Hebrew words in place of the Greek?

I can't believe you put that there for the world to see.

Ask yourself, what sound does the "I" make in the Greek?

Now I am going to explain the "e". The "E" is the replacement for the "a" in Yah, the shorten form of the Fathers Name. The Rabbitical writers of that time period felt that the name was too Holy for mans lips to speak. That's why you see Yeh, Y'shua, and Yeshua.

Why would he give his Name if he didn't want us to use it.

I think you should stop responding because you are starting to make fool of yourself. I had respect for you until that last quote. You won't allow the Truth to enter in.

Hebrews 13:8 READ

Be blessed and study more. I'm a real Christian you won't find any gray areas. Try the Spirit and see if it is of Yah.

[Sparko]

Why are you being disrespectful to God by calling him "Yah" if his name is YHWH? That is like calling God "Bob" if he name was "Robert"


And shouldn't you be writing his name using the Hebrew letters instead of transliterating them into English Letters? That is disprespectful.

[technomage]

I can't believe you put that there for the world to see.

Ask yourself, what sound does the "I" make in the Greek?

Now I am going to explain the "e". The "E" is the replacement for the "a" in Yah, the shorten form of the Fathers Name. The Rabbitical writers of that time period felt that the name was too Holy for mans lips to speak. That's why you see Yeh, Y'shua, and Yeshua.

Why would he give his Name if he didn't want us to use it.

Then why was it written in Greek in the Bible--unless you propose that the New Testament authors erred in using Greek?

I think you should stop responding because you are starting to make fool of yourself. I had respect for you until that last quote. You won't allow the Truth to enter in.

Hebrews 13:8 READ

Be blessed and study more. I'm a real Christian you won't find any gray areas. Try the Spirit and see if it is of Yah.

The spirit I see in these posts is not the spirit of Yah, but the spirit of pride. Pride of knowledge that you believe is superior to others.

One more time: the New Testament was written in Greek. By changing Hebrew words for the Greek, you are changing scripture. Why do you do this?

[Pilgrim]

I think you should stop responding because you are starting to make fool of yourself.
Be careful sonofya, remember what scripture warns of one who calls his brother a fool.

And from the second page, you mis quote yourself. You in fact did not ask Cup to show in scripture where God is called "many names." Your original statment was that if he could show that God was called by many names in scripture you would submit. He indeed showed you that and you dodged by changing your statement.

Oh, and this little gem:
The Rabbitical[sic] writers of that time period
Rabbitacal [sic]? Is that like a jewish scholar with long ears and a little puffy tail?

Just to clear something up for me because I think we are facing a language issue here: english is not your first language is it?

[Yamyam]

If you believe that his name was not presented until after his death you are not hearing from the Holy Spirit. You probably believe he born on christmas and he died on easter too....lol...you are propabably under the same spell the Samarians were under by Simon Magnus Acts 8...the first Pope.

Just a joke....lol

Do you know who Hiram Abiff is? I'm trying to figure you out. The reason I asked is because you said you are a Wiccan (some of which embraces Freemasonry) and that can mean that you were once jaded by the Christian faith...your debating style comes from an angle that doesnot embrace the voice of the Holy Spirit. You see, I present scripture that you are obviously not reading, because the word doesnot contradict. That means one of us is not hearing from the Ruach Hacodesh. See, its very important for you to be in the Spirit because the Scriptures say that YHWH is a Spirit and those who worship him worship him in spirit and in truth. You have to be Set-Apart young man. You have knowledge but you are crying out for answers. You most certainly do not have to tell me I'm right or wrong about that statement but I want you read the scriptures from a Spiritual standpoint and witness on how different it will be. Proving your way is right or wrong is not my focus. I'm here to spread the truth. I know, and you know its the truth so stop fighting me with Hebrew vs Greek.
The fact is hypothetically speaking....If your name is Rick and you visit another country outside of the US where your not known. You find yourself walking in a shopping area and someone calls you John. Do you answer? The fact is your mother and your father never gave you that name so you will not respond. The Messiahs name should not be transfered letter for letter from one language to the next. To transliterate the Name is a total disrepect and I hope a lot of people view this posting because Christianity needs to go to another level in the right Name. Its time out for what the King James version said. Recognize what YHWH is saying. If you like to study check out the year the King James bible first came into exisitence. 1611 was the year. Get a copy and read it. There is NO Jesus there. The "j" was not invented yet. The "J" was a mistake on the printing press. If you look at the Alphabet closely you will see it clearly that the "I,i" and the "J,j" look alike.....there is no other language besides the English that have a J sound within it. Satans best trick was not convincing the world he didn't exist it was changing the names of the father and the son. How can you rebuke him in the name of jesus. He will laugh at you. Recognize that Satan is the master of confusion not of mind control. The word says let this mind be in you that is also in Messiah. If you give ear to satan he will tell to tell me there is a differnt name in the Greek, Latin and Hebrew.

This is an imporant point:

Its funny how Satans name never changes from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant. Its also funny how Adam is still Adam in the Hebrew and the Greek. Yerushalayim is still Yerushalayim. Moshe is still Moshe. Abraham is still Abraham.

THE ONLY NAMES THAT WERE TRANSLITERATED ARE THE NAMES WE NEED THE MOST.

THINK ABOUT IT

Look, I also find it better to call them with the original names, but do you really think Yahshua wouldn't hear a Christian praying when he would call him Jesus? You think that all those Christian people around the world are not heard by YHWH because you call him God or Lord? Like He doesn't know you're calling Him, He's not deaf you know, just because you give him another name.
You also think Satan's best trick was to confuse the names and not convincing the world he didn't exist? I think by far the second "trick" is much worse. How can the first be worse?

[sonofyah]

Why are you being disrespectful to God by calling him "Yah" if his name is YHWH? That is like calling God "Bob" if he name was "Robert"


And shouldn't you be writing his name using the Hebrew letters instead of transliterating them into English Letters? That is disprespectful.

You are absolutely correct. I was simply giving an example because his Name is in a few Names in the holy scriptures for example: Zecharyah, Obadyah, Yeshayahu, Yahshua, Yirmeyahu, Nehemyah, Mattithyahu and last but not least the Highest form of praise Halleluyah. That means praise Yah.

Even David use the shorten form of YHWH in the scriptures, Read Psalm 68:4

But nevertheless you are on to something and I stand corrected.

[sonofyah]

Why are you being disrespectful to God by calling him "Yah" if his name is YHWH? That is like calling God "Bob" if he name was "Robert"


And shouldn't you be writing his name using the Hebrew letters instead of transliterating them into English Letters? That is disprespectful.

You are absolutely correct. I was simply giving an example because his Name is in a few Names in the holy scriptures for example: Zecharyah, Obadyah, Yeshayahu, Yahshua, Yirmeyahu, Nehemyah, Mattithyahu and last but not least the Highest form of praise Halleluyah. That means praise Yah.

Even David use the shorten form of YHWH in the scriptures, Read Psalm 68:4

But nevertheless you are on to something and I stand corrected.

[semmie]

To answer your question Yes I am familiar with the Greek Theous, Theon, and Logos....I want you to come from a spiritual stand point and get out of the language box. I gave a scripture that says that the Name came from heaven-Phil 2:9. This is spiritual not earthly. yet the very next verses (which you have conveniently failed to mention) go on to say this:
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
the way i see it, you need to do some fancy footwork here. is this verse simply wrong?

Another point I want to give and I hope "a cup of mystery" is looking @ this....Acts 26:14- And when we had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me? Its hard for you to kick against the prods. And I said Who are you, Master? And he said I am Yahshua, whom you persecute. :yes: so what? perhaps you would like to show us how to spell "yahshua" in greek?

John 5:43 states that he comes in his Fathers Name. There is only one logical and spiritual explaination for that...."Shua" meaning Salvation and "Yah" the shorten form of heavenly fathers name....Yahshua...meaning the salvation of YHWH.do you think that every time the bible says the word "name" that it literally means a given name? do you think there might be some implication here of authority? i have seen nothing posted here by you that has been convincing of the assumption (made by you) that "iesous" is not an accurate greek rendering of the hebrew name "yahshua." if you cannot show this, then you simply have no case.

also, you didn't answer the following question--if you wouldn't mind returning to it and addressing it, i'd appreciate that.
and...what is it about saying "yahshua" that you fear we have missed by saying "jesus" ? or...do you hold that the name "jesus" has pagan roots?

[sonofyah]

Look, I also find it better to call them with the original names, but do you really think Yahshua wouldn't hear a Christian praying when he would call him Jesus? You think that all those Christian people around the world are not heard by YHWH because you call him God or Lord? Like He doesn't know you're calling Him, He's not deaf you know, just because you give him another name.
You also think Satan's best trick was to confuse the names and not convincing the world he didn't exist? I think by far the second "trick" is much worse. How can the first be worse?

God- anything that is able to be worshiped
(The name of a German deity is God)
Allah means the god
Budda is an avatar for the Hindu god Vishu
Krishna is treated as a god
Osiris is an egyptain god
All of these gods. How do you seperate them?
By using a NAME. That's like walking into a room full of men and saying "hey man". Who is going to answer you.

Point: Christians worship the Elohim of the Hebrews, who gave his name in the second book of the Holy Scriptures called Shemoth 3:14,15. Shemoth means "the name" in Hebrew.

Answer: if you say "god" when you worship and praise. WHICH GOD ARE YOU TALKING TOO. Christianity is a religion of relationship. How can you have a relationship with someone who doesn't know your Name.
Lord- European judges are called by this title.
Read the PREFACE OF THE NIV BIBLE (15TH PARAGRAPH) they tell you why they disrespected my father in Heaven. He did not give those instructions.

Futhermore Yahshua quoted this scripture that informs the world of what they would do. John 5:43- I come in my Fathers Name and you receive me not, but another will come in his own name and him you will receive. Yes he is talking about all the silly tricks of the enemy who have people in other religions and or beliefs, believing in a fraudulant virgin birth of the Messiah under a different name and time period. This is how you cause division in the body. You must study and show yourself approved. Also the word teaches us that he who knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin. Its time out for taking preacher at his word. Study and get to know him for yourself.

You know, people don't even believe in the jesus they walk with. The reason why I say that is the closer you walk with jesus and cry out for a relationship with him he will let you know, that is not my name. Believe me. How do you think I found out.

[sonofyah]

Absolutely not. Yet when the author of Acts wrote the name, he used Iesous. If you wish to state that translating Yehoshua to Iesous was wrong in the eyes of God, then you must deny the authority of scriptures.



You tell me "Don't run," yet again and again you evade my question.

Why do you change Scripture by substituting Hebrew words for the Greek of the New Testament?

BECAUSE HIS NAME NEVER CHANGES.

MALACHI 3:6

[sonofyah]

Be careful sonofya, remember what scripture warns of one who calls his brother a fool.

And from the second page, you mis quote yourself. You in fact did not ask Cup to show in scripture where God is called "many names." Your original statment was that if he could show that God was called by many names in scripture you would submit. He indeed showed you that and you dodged by changing your statement.

Oh, and this little gem:

Rabbitacal [sic]? Is that like a jewish scholar with long ears and a little puffy tail?

Just to clear something up for me because I think we are facing a language issue here: english is not your first language is it?

I THINK YOU JUST WANT TO TALK WITH ME.

OK

The english language is the chosen language for America. This type of speaking is only five hundred years old. A hybrid language that embraces other languages such as, arabic, latin, greek and the list goes on and on. The english or anglosized way of speaking lacks originality. Yet you feel that its "normal" to speak and spell correctly. I'm sorry for misspelling words when I am typing. The fact remains that the word was getting across to people. Don't allow yourself to be used by Satan. Making a statement that has no merit. Read the messege and give your input. Get out of that way of life that sets "normal" standards for the way people are suppose to live, talk, write, dress, eat, and walk. The scriptures teaches us to be Holy. So make holiness your normal standard and not english.

NOW

Can you show me a scripture that says: "He is called by many names"?

If you cannot show me that scripture why did you respond?

[technomage]

BECAUSE HIS NAME NEVER CHANGES.

MALACHI 3:6

Then you deny the authority of Scripture, using your own private interpretation as an excuse to deny the Bible.

[sonofyah]

yet the very next verses (which you have conveniently failed to mention) go on to say this:
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
the way i see it, you need to do some fancy footwork here. is this verse simply wrong?

:yes: so what? perhaps you would like to show us how to spell "yahshua" in greek?

do you think that every time the bible says the word "name" that it literally means a given name? do you think there might be some implication here of authority? i have seen nothing posted here by you that has been convincing of the assumption (made by you) that "iesous" is not an accurate greek rendering of the hebrew name "yahshua." if you cannot show this, then you simply have no case.

also, you didn't answer the following question--if you wouldn't mind returning to it and addressing it, i'd appreciate that.

ONE LAST TIME. PLEASE READ C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L-Y

Stop Putting a language barrior on the Name YHWH and Yahshua....The names come FROM HEAVEN...the Fathers Name was given to Moshe Exodus 3:15. The Son's Name came directly from HEAVEN Phil. 2:9. Meaning it came from YHWH.

Yahshua said I AM THE SAID YESTERDAY, TODAY, and FOREVERMORE Revalations 1:8

YHWH said I AM YHWH AND I CHANGE NOT!
Malachi 3:8

Donot ask me again about HEBREW AND GREEK..

THE NAME SHOULD NOT BE TRANSLITERATED

Read my replies. I come strictly from the Word.

Satans name was transliterated into every language. Did you ever realized that. Sadam Heussien's name is the same no matter where you go. And not many people speak Arabic. His name was not transliterated into the english, greek or hebrew. Michael Jackson name is the same all over the world. There is no need to transliterate his name into any language. His name is the same.

None of these people mean anything to me, but the point is if there names are not transliterated why is the Alpha and the Omega's Name changing.

Remember Deut 4:2

Please Do Not ask me again about transliterating the Name of the Father and the Son. This should not happen!

If you can, rebuke me with a scripture. Then you can say I have no case.

PS make sure the scripture says " His name should be transliterated". Because that is the basis of your argument.

[Sparko]

God- anything that is able to be worshiped
(The name of a German deity is God)
Allah means the god
Budda is an avatar for the Hindu god Vishu
Krishna is treated as a god
Osiris is an egyptain god
All of these gods. How do you seperate them?
By using a NAME. That's like walking into a room full of men and saying "hey man". Who is going to answer you.

Point: Christians worship the Elohim of the Hebrews, who gave his name in the second book of the Holy Scriptures called Shemoth 3:14,15. Shemoth means "the name" in Hebrew.

Answer: if you say "god" when you worship and praise. WHICH GOD ARE YOU TALKING TOO.

And you call yourself a Christian????

Those are not Gods, those are human inventions. The spirit world is not filled up with a bunch of gods listening for prayers from their devotees. There is only ONE God. The God of the Bible. all else are just idols and imagination.

God hears me whether I call him Abba, or Father, or Yahweh, or Lord, or Jehovah. God is not confused by pronouncing his name different. He is God after all. You know? All Powerful and All Knowing and all that? He who knows men's hearts? The one who KNOWS his sheep?

If you called you dad, "dad", "daddy", "pops", or "fred" he would know you were his son and hear you.

You limit God to someone who is confused by a person praying to him using a different pronunciation of his name. Why stop there? Maybe he can only hear you if you pray to him in Hebrew? If he can only hear you when you call him YHWH (and how do you know you are even pronouncing that right?) then maybe he can only understand you if you speak his original language and that wasn't english.

I have family in Germany (my mother is German). My name is John. My family over here calls me Johnny. People on this board call me Sparko. My family in Germany call me Johann (pronounced Yo-hahn) and you know what? I don't mind. I even recognise when they are talking to me and answer to them. They are my friends and family. I know they are talking to me and are using either my name, my nickname, or my German name. and I answer them. Do you think God is so weak and limited or callous that he doesn't do the same? That he doesn't know the voices of his children?

Your legalism astounds me.

[technomage]

THE NAME SHOULD NOT BE TRANSLITERATED

Yet you do so every time you write or type the Name in Roman characters.

Transliteration (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=transliteration).

[sonofyah]

And you call yourself a Christian????

Those are not Gods, those are human inventions. The spirit world is not filled up with a bunch of gods listening for prayers from their devotees. There is only ONE God. The God of the Bible. all else are just idols and imagination.

God hears me whether I call him Abba, or Father, or Yahweh, or Lord, or Jehovah. God is not confused by pronouncing his name different. He is God after all. You know? All Powerful and All Knowing and all that? He who knows men's hearts? The one who KNOWS his sheep?

If you called you dad, "dad", "daddy", "pops", or "fred" he would know you were his son and hear you.

You limit God to someone who is confused by a person praying to him using a different pronunciation of his name. Why stop there? Maybe he can only hear you if you pray to him in Hebrew? If he can only hear you when you call him YHWH (and how do you know you are even pronouncing that right?) then maybe he can only understand you if you speak his original language and that wasn't english.

I have family in Germany (my mother is German). My name is John. My family over here calls me Johnny. People on this board call me Sparko. My family in Germany call me Johann (pronounced Yo-hahn) and you know what? I don't mind. I even recognise when they are talking to me and answer to them. They are my friends and family. I know they are talking to me and are using either my name, my nickname, or my German name. and I answer them. Do you think God is so weak and limited or callous that he doesn't do the same? That he doesn't know the voices of his children?

Your legalism astounds me.

That sounds really good but, the difference between you and I is that I give scriptures and you are giving me what you think YHWH wants to hear. Is that in the scriptures.

Ask yourself, did YHWH tell me to give sonofyah that reply or was it my own understanding of what you want. You or anyone else that replied to me gave me a scripture. Cup tried but he doesn't understand the name came from heaven so it never changes Malachi 3:6....

There isn't even a debate about his Name. The only debate is pronunciation. I never spell his Name with vowels. YHWH

God- anything that is able to be worshiped. People don't realize idols and gods are the same. It becomes what the worshiper wants it to be, because he created it. The idol or god really submits to the worshiper. The reason why so many cultures embrace monotheism is because each god have to nurture a different earthly desire.

SCRIPTURE PLEASE!!!!!! Let every viewer see what the scriptures say in accordance with your arguement or they will continue to take words face value because it sounds believeable. Thats wrong and you know it. You will be contributing to the genocide that is trying to destroy the Christian body with that cancerous name "jesus"

The Scripture says you will be judged for every idol word.

[wfaber]

Yet you do so every time you write or type the Name in Roman characters. Transliteration.
Exactly. Like your daughter's name, Tabitha. It's an Aramaic word. So does she feel insulted every time it's spelled out in English letters.

I hope the other people at Etz Chayim-Tree of Life Messianic Congregation and Tree of Life Messianic Ministries aren't this judgemental.

Lighten up a little, Gordon.

[technomage]

Exactly. Like your daughter's name, Tabitha. It's an Aramaic word. So does she feel insulted every time it's spelled out in English letters.

Relax, my friend. I'm not advocating that translation or transliteration are wrong, I'm trying to point out a logical inconsistancy in our friend Abram's doctrine. It's my view that this doctrine of his is causing an unnecessary division.

[technomage]

The Scripture says you will be judged for every idol word.

Please! There is significant difference between "idol" (a "false god") and "idle" (passing or unimportant).

[Sparko]

That sounds really good but, the difference between you and I is that I give scriptures and you are giving me what you think YHWH wants to hear. Is that in the scriptures.

You have not given us any scripture that says that you must call God YHWH only. You have not given any scripture that says that JESUS is not the name of the Word. You have not given any scripture that says transliteration of Jesus' name is wrong or means you are not saved.

You have not done any of this.

Let me give you scripture where God tells us we can call him something other than YHWH.

Jeremiah 3:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=30&chapter=3&verse=19&version=31&context=verse)
"I myself said, " 'How gladly would I treat you like sons and give you a desirable land, the most beautiful inheritance of any nation.' I thought you would call me 'Father' and not turn away from following me.

Matthew 6:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=6&verse=9&version=31&context=verse)
"This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,

[I don't see him USING God's name anywher in the prayer, do you? I see him calling God FATHER.

Romans 8:15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=8&verse=15&version=31&context=verse)
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."


Ask yourself, did YHWH tell me to give sonofyah that reply or was it my own understanding of what you want. You or anyone else that replied to me gave me a scripture. Cup tried but he doesn't understand the name came from heaven so it never changes Malachi 3:6....

So it never changes huh? Jesus always had the same name huh? He was never known by another name?

Isaiah 7:14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=7&verse=14&version=31&context=verse)
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Matthew 1:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=1&verse=21&version=31&context=verse)
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."

So why do you not call him Immanuel instead of Yohoshua?

And you want to know what else? God has many names in the bible besides YHWH also. didn't you know that?

El, Elohim, El Shaddai, I AM WHO I AM, Jehovah, Jehovah-Jireh, Jehovah-Rophe, Jehovah-Rophe, Jehovah-Nissi, Jehovah-M' Kaddesh, Jehovah-Shalom, El Elyon, Kodash, Shaphat, Kanna, Yesha, Gaol, Magen, Eyaluth, and a dozen others.





There isn't even a debate about his Name. The only debate is pronunciation. I never spell his Name with vowels. YHWH


But I have seen you call him "yah" that has a vowel in it. and it is shortening his name, so you are mispronouncing his name everytime you say "yah" or write it.

Everytime you WRITE YHWH you are transliterating his name! The letters Y, H, W, do not exist in hebrew. Every time you say Yehoshua you are mispronouncing the name of the Son. You don't know how to pronounce the word like they did back then do you? You are again using english letters to spell out his name. It was never spelled like that. You are transliterating his name. You are doing exactly what you condemn US for doing. Do you know what the scriptures have to say about that?

Matthew 7:2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=7&verse=2&version=31&context=verse)
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

You need to start dusting off your fire proof pajamas, my friend.

God- anything that is able to be worshiped. People don't realize idols and gods are the same. It becomes what the worshiper wants it to be, because he created it. The idol or god really submits to the worshiper. The reason why so many cultures embrace monotheism is because each god have to nurture a different earthly desire.

...but it does not matter what men think. you argument is that Satan makes us change Gods name and then God can't hear our prayers, supposedly because God is too ignorant to figure out who I am praying to unless I pronounce his name exactly right.

Well even YOU do not do that. You have no idea how YHWH is pronounced so your prayers are just bouncing off the ceiling if you are right.

Your God might be a nincompoop who can't understand your prayers unless you use the exact correct name and pronunciation, but OUR God is the Almighty God of the universe who knows when I am talking and praying to him no matter if I call him Father, Yahweh, Jehovah, Abba, Lord, Adonai, Elohim, or just plain "God".



SCRIPTURE PLEASE!!!!!! Let every viewer see what the scriptures say in accordance with your arguement or they will continue to take words face value because it sounds believeable. Thats wrong and you know it.


You are the one who has no scripture to back up your position.

The Scripture says you will be judged for every idol word.

Like I said, start dusting off your fireproof jammies, cuz you will be judged by the standard you set to condemn everyone else. You better hope you find out how to pronounce YHWH exactly right or you are gonna be in trouble. Better find out those vowels and take a course in Hebrew so you know how to pronounce the vowels correctly. I am sure the vowels and such have changed in 4000 years.

[studyhound]

Sonofyah I know you disagree on how to pronounce Jesus name but that was over the line. Please read our FAQ on profanity here (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/faq.php?faq=campus_decorum#faq_campus_decorum_profanity)

[Yamyam]

God- anything that is able to be worshiped
(The name of a German deity is God)
Allah means the god
Budda is an avatar for the Hindu god Vishu
Krishna is treated as a god
Osiris is an egyptain god
All of these gods. How do you seperate them?
By using a NAME. That's like walking into a room full of men and saying "hey man". Who is going to answer you.

So we should use the name JHWH so other humans won't confuse us with other beliefs? Then still I don't see why that is such a big issue for God or Jesus. Plus other people can understand us perfectly if we call him Lord or we call us Christians. By the way...there are some Christian beliefs like the Jehovah's Witnesses who also think we should use the name Jehovah. Everyone has a different view on WHICH name we should use, if we use a name. (just look at all the possibilities in this thread) You get even more separated Christian groups by trying to change "God" into something else.


Point: Christians worship the Elohim of the Hebrews, who gave his name in the second book of the Holy Scriptures called Shemoth 3:14,15. Shemoth means "the name" in Hebrew.

Answer: if you say "god" when you worship and praise. WHICH GOD ARE YOU TALKING TOO. Christianity is a religion of relationship. How can you have a relationship with someone who doesn't know your Name.
Lord- European judges are called by this title.
Read the PREFACE OF THE NIV BIBLE (15TH PARAGRAPH) they tell you why they disrespected my father in Heaven. He did not give those instructions.

This relationship isn't a relationship between humans who indeed need names to listen to, but it's a relationship between a human and God. I'm sure God doesn't have any problem understanding who's talking to him. It seems naive to me to think God wouldn't listen because you don't use the right name. That would by the way mean ALL those people around the world, who called God for centuries aren't listened to and/or answered. Seems like nonsense to me. Plus if Jesus calls his Father "Eli", you think God didn't hear him because the men didn't say "Yahweh"?


Futhermore Yahshua quoted this scripture that informs the world of what they would do. John 5:43- I come in my Fathers Name and you receive me not, but another will come in his own name and him you will receive.

[QUOTE=sonofyah]
Maybe he's talking about people like you? :blush:

[QUOTE=sonofyah]
Yes he is talking about all the silly tricks of the enemy who have people in other religions and or beliefs, believing in a fraudulant virgin birth of the Messiah under a different name and time period. This is how you cause division in the body. You must study and show yourself approved. Also the word teaches us that he who knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin. Its time out for taking preacher at his word. Study and get to know him for yourself.


Apparently to God it doesn't matter that much how you call him, 'cause in the bible he (and Jesus) is called different names.


You know, people don't even believe in the jesus they walk with. The reason why I say that is the closer you walk with jesus and cry out for a relationship with him he will let you know, that is not my name. Believe me. How do you think I found out.
So all the Christians who call Jesus Jesus don't have a very close relationship with Jesus? Seems like the most religious Christians on this world then haven't. :ahem: I have seen nuns and monks, more close to Jesus than I could ever imagine and they called him Jesus->no Jesus who let them know that's not his name.

[sonofyah]

So we should use the name JHWH so other humans won't confuse us with other beliefs? Then still I don't see why that is such a big issue for God or Jesus. Plus other people can understand us perfectly if we call him Lord or we call us Christians. By the way...there are some Christian beliefs like the Jehovah's Witnesses who also think we should use the name Jehovah. Everyone has a different view on WHICH name we should use, if we use a name. (just look at all the possibilities in this thread) You get even more separated Christian groups by trying to change "God" into something else.


This relationship isn't a relationship between humans who indeed need names to listen to, but it's a relationship between a human and God. I'm sure God doesn't have any problem understanding who's talking to him. It seems naive to me to think God wouldn't listen because you don't use the right name. That would by the way mean ALL those people around the world, who called God for centuries aren't listened to and/or answered. Seems like nonsense to me. Plus if Jesus calls his Father "Eli", you think God didn't hear him because the men didn't say "Yahweh"?

[QUOTE=sonofyah]
Futhermore Yahshua quoted this scripture that informs the world of what they would do. John 5:43- I come in my Fathers Name and you receive me not, but another will come in his own name and him you will receive.

[QUOTE=sonofyah]
Maybe he's talking about people like you? :blush:



Apparently to God it doesn't matter that much how you call him, 'cause in the bible he (and Jesus) is called different names.


So all the Christians who call Jesus Jesus don't have a very close relationship with Jesus? Seems like the most religious Christians on this world then haven't. :ahem: I have seen nuns and monks, more close to Jesus than I could ever imagine and they called him Jesus->no Jesus who let them know that's not his name.

Listen, I cannot make you call him YHWH. Make a decision or don't make a decision at all. The Word says you choose this day whom you will serve. If you look up the name Jesus in the webster dictionary it will tell you where it comes from. But anyone with a half a brain will see that it is impossible to transliterate JESUS from Yahoshua. The Name should not lose its pronunciation. A novice can pick this up. I am not throwing stones. I am just speaking the truth. If you dont agree im ok with that. But you cannot say you haven't been told.

[sonofyah]

Please! There is significant difference between "idol" (a "false god") and "idle" (passing or unimportant).

Sorry :blush: my mistake. You are right

[technomage]

But anyone with a half a brain will see that it is impossible to transliterate JESUS from Yahoshua.

It's not--Jesus is transliterated from Greek Iesous.

[sonofyah]

Relax, my friend. I'm not advocating that translation or transliteration are wrong, I'm trying to point out a logical inconsistancy in our friend Abram's doctrine. It's my view that this doctrine of his is causing an unnecessary division.


The division did not start with me and niether am I apart of any type of dividing. What about denominations? A christian is a christian. That my friend is division. If I was in error why are you entertaining the subject. What I will apologize for is the way I have come fourth with the subject. I was rebuked by the Holy Spirit this morning. YHWH asked me to think about my delivery. This is not a fight. Then he told me to read 1 Timothy 6. Again I apologize for my delivery.

[technomage]

If I was in error why are you entertaining the subject.

Because, my friend, I sense your sincerity and your desire to serve God. Were you serving only yourself, I would have nothing to do with you, leaving you to argue with the other Christians. But I truly feel that you are doing your best before YHVH.

It's rather like a child learning to walk--for we are all children before God. Such a child will stumble from time to time, and I feel you are stumbling in this particular area. I would see you walk without stumbling.

[sonofyah]

It's not--Jesus is transliterated from Greek Iesous.

If the webster dictionary says it goes from Middle english (what ever that means) from Late Latin from the greek which started from Yahoshua. Why did we need to go through all of that when we can just say Yahoshua. There is absolutely no need.

[sonofyah]

Because, my friend, I sense your sincerity and your desire to serve God. Were you serving only yourself, I would have nothing to do with you, leaving you to argue with the other Christians. But I truly feel that you are doing your best before YHVH.

It's rather like a child learning to walk--for we are all children before God. Such a child will stumble from time to time, and I feel you are stumbling in this particular area. I would see you walk without stumbling.

I appreciate your friendship or can I say brotherhood. The word says in Yehudah(Jude) verse 24: To him who is able to keep me from stumbling and present me faultless in the presence of his glory with exceedeing joy...

[technomage]

If the webster dictionary says it goes from Middle english (what ever that means) from Late Latin from the greek which started from Yahoshua. Why did we need to go through all of that when we can just say Yahoshua. There is absolutely no need.

Youre absolutely correct that there is no need to say Jesus instead of Yehoshuah. However, the problem is that some who follow the Sacred Name movement state that Jesus is not the same thing. That is a factual error.

And as far as that, there is no dictionary in this world that says Yehoshuah is Greek. It's Hebrew.

[Yamyam]

[QUOTE=Yamyam]So we should use the name JHWH so other humans won't confuse us with other beliefs? Then still I don't see why that is such a big issue for God or Jesus. Plus other people can understand us perfectly if we call him Lord or we call us Christians. By the way...there are some Christian beliefs like the Jehovah's Witnesses who also think we should use the name Jehovah. Everyone has a different view on WHICH name we should use, if we use a name. (just look at all the possibilities in this thread) You get even more separated Christian groups by trying to change "God" into something else.


This relationship isn't a relationship between humans who indeed need names to listen to, but it's a relationship between a human and God. I'm sure God doesn't have any problem understanding who's talking to him. It seems naive to me to think God wouldn't listen because you don't use the right name. That would by the way mean ALL those people around the world, who called God for centuries aren't listened to and/or answered. Seems like nonsense to me. Plus if Jesus calls his Father "Eli", you think God didn't hear him because the men didn't say "Yahweh"?

[QUOTE=sonofyah]
Futhermore Yahshua quoted this scripture that informs the world of what they would do. John 5:43- I come in my Fathers Name and you receive me not, but another will come in his own name and him you will receive.



Listen, I cannot make you call him YHWH. Make a decision or don't make a decision at all. The Word says you choose this day whom you will serve. If you look up the name Jesus in the webster dictionary it will tell you where it comes from. But anyone with a half a brain will see that it is impossible to transliterate JESUS from Yahoshua. The Name should not lose its pronunciation. A novice can pick this up. I am not throwing stones. I am just speaking the truth. If you dont agree im ok with that. But you cannot say you haven't been told.

You don't answer my questions, that's not very nice of you.

[sonofyah]

Because, my friend, I sense your sincerity and your desire to serve God. Were you serving only yourself, I would have nothing to do with you, leaving you to argue with the other Christians. But I truly feel that you are doing your best before YHVH.

It's rather like a child learning to walk--for we are all children before God. Such a child will stumble from time to time, and I feel you are stumbling in this particular area. I would see you walk without stumbling.

You know what. YHWH made it clear in the scriptures when he was changing someones name and why. Why wouldnt he make it clear when changing his own name or his Son's name. If he said this my name for all generations then turn around and say I am YHWH and I change not. Please believe he will not turn around and say in any other scriptutres I will be changing my name when other languages are created on the earth. Its impossible. His word's will never return onto him void.

What really was bothering me is you say that YHWH is one of his names. However, you continue to try to make me believe that without a scripture. Not noticing that you already agree, you just choose to call him other names.
If you know it says "Our Father who are in Heaven....be thy NAME, Not NAMES.

Nevertheless you and the others who responded have chosen to call him other names.

[sonofyah]

[QUOTE=Yamyam]So we should use the name JHWH so other humans won't confuse us with other beliefs? Then still I don't see why that is such a big issue for God or Jesus. Plus other people can understand us perfectly if we call him Lord or we call us Christians. By the way...there are some Christian beliefs like the Jehovah's Witnesses who also think we should use the name Jehovah. Everyone has a different view on WHICH name we should use, if we use a name. (just look at all the possibilities in this thread) You get even more separated Christian groups by trying to change "God" into something else.


This relationship isn't a relationship between humans who indeed need names to listen to, but it's a relationship between a human and God. I'm sure God doesn't have any problem understanding who's talking to him. It seems naive to me to think God wouldn't listen because you don't use the right name. That would by the way mean ALL those people around the world, who called God for centuries aren't listened to and/or answered. Seems like nonsense to me. Plus if Jesus calls his Father "Eli", you think God didn't hear him because the men didn't say "Yahweh"?



You don't answer my questions, that's not very nice of you.

I am very sorry. I have answered every question you have presented in other replies.



I'm sure God doesn't have any problem understanding who's talking to him.
God wouldn't listen because you don't use the right name

If you can find your words in the holy scriptures I will repent.

[semmie]

ONE LAST TIME. PLEASE READ C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L-Y
no, friend...YOU read carefully. we're going to do this ONE time.

Stop Putting a language barrior on the Name YHWH and Yahshua....The names come FROM HEAVEN...the Fathers Name was given to Moshe Exodus 3:15. The Son's Name came directly from HEAVEN Phil. 2:9. Meaning it came from YHWH. no. phil. 2:9 says that the son is given the name that is "above every name." this is not a matter of being an english name or a hebrew name or a greek name or a pagan deity name; this is a matter of authority. the son has been given authority. and verses 10 and 11 use the word "jesus," which tells me that in the original texts (which were greek, if i'm not mistaken) used the transliteration "iesous" for the name "yahshua." so in order for you to have any beef about the name jesus, you MUST show that these are faulty transliterations. because the absolute reality of it, as Mystery has already pointed out, is that you CANNOT spell a hebraic name in hebraic characters when you are writing with greek letters. if the greek language used hebraic characters, then it would be hebrew.

Yahshua said I AM THE SAID YESTERDAY, TODAY, and FOREVERMORE Revalations 1:8 what language was revelation written in?

YHWH said I AM YHWH AND I CHANGE NOT!
Malachi 3:8 nobody's got a beef with yahweh. but i am curious how you DARE to call him "yhwh" and not actually write his name in the hebrew letters.

Donot ask me again about HEBREW AND GREEK.. you claimed to know something about the languages. i assumed you were being honest. if you aren't going to be honest, then close your mouth about it.

THE NAME SHOULD NOT BE TRANSLITERATEDthen you should not spell it "yhwh." at this point, you will begin to post the hebraic letters, or i will no longer take you seriously. you are contradicting yourself.

Read my replies. I come strictly from the Word. that's funny.

Satans name was transliterated into every language. Did you ever realized that. Sadam Heussien's name is the same no matter where you go. And not many people speak Arabic. His name was not transliterated into the english, greek or hebrew. Michael Jackson name is the same all over the world. There is no need to transliterate his name into any language. His name is the same. actually, there is need to translate his name into other languages. do you know how to write "michael jackson" in japanese? i'm guessing you don't. but i can tell you, it doesn't look like "michael jackson"--though it would be pronounced similarly, japanese uses completely different characters than english does.

None of these people mean anything to me, but the point is if there names are not transliterated why is the Alpha and the Omega's Name changing. well, again, you're the one spelling it "yhwh" instead of YHWH.

Please Do Not ask me again about transliterating the Name of the Father and the Son. This should not happen!well, i don't speak hebrew...so praise yah, somebody showed me how to spell his name in english!

If you can, rebuke me with a scripture. Then you can say I have no case. i have no desire to rebuke you. but if i did, i would simply share with you Isaiah 9:6--
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

PS make sure the scripture says " His name should be transliterated". Because that is the basis of your argument.actually, that's not the basis of my argument. the basis of my argument is that YOU are assuming the greek new testament is ERRED. so why don't you get to the real point and start showing us how it got to be so corrupt.

[Sparko]

What really was bothering me is you say that YHWH is one of his names. However, you continue to try to make me believe that without a scripture. Not noticing that you already agree, you just choose to call him other names.
If you know it says "Our Father who are in Heaven....be thy NAME, Not NAMES.

Nevertheless you and the others who responded have chosen to call him other names.

Well I did answer you and give you scripture and did give you many other names that God is called in the bible, but you totally ignored my post. Here is a link to it again

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1154817&postcount=57

God is called many names in the bible, not just YHWH. Read my post

[Essaias]

Did the apostle Paul ever teach his greek speaking converts to do all in the name of Yahahoowahashoowahoo?

Did this teaching ever get recorded in God's Word, preserved for us today by Divine Providence?

If not, then why would any Bible believing Christian propose such a thing?

Rather, why would any Bible believing Christian BELIEVE such a thing?

peace-

[technomage]

You know what. YHWH made it clear in the scriptures when he was changing someones name and why. Why wouldnt he make it clear when changing his own name or his Son's name.

It has nothing to do with YHVH changing His or Jesus's names: it has to do solely and simply with the nature of langiuages. Most humans on this earth do not speak Hebrew. We have grown up with the Biblical texts that (in the New Testament) were written in Greek--including the name of Jesus.

In turn, our own languages have changed: yes, English has used the J (and by the way, you are quite incorrect that English is the only language with that letter or that sound). But as you've also noted, our own language has changed. The "Middle English" you expressed confusion about is the English of Chaucer's time (You can see a short sample of it here (http://www.librarius.com/cantales/genpro.htm)). Most people today cannot read it: as a matter of fact, if you'd like a real surprise, most Israelis in Israel today cannot read Torah Hebrew, because the language has changed. There are also enough differences between Aramaic and Greek that many residents of Judea in Jesus' time could not read the Torah--that's why the Jews created the Targumim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targum).

Abram, the point of it is this: Jesus spoke in either Aramaic or Greek, and yes, he probably also spoke Hebrew (because he read the Tanakh at synagogue). We know that Aramaic Yahoshua is different from Hebrew Yehoshua, and we know that Greek Iesous is different from either one. Jesus never said "You have to use this form of my name, not the others." And we know that Paul and the author of Acts both wrote in Greek, using the word Iesous.

If you say that Iesous or Jesus are not "proper" ways to name the Son, then you must deny the authority of Scripture.

[Sparko]

If you say that Iesous or Jesus are not "proper" ways to name the Son, then you must deny the authority of Scripture.

Especially since the very people who KNEW Jesus, lived with him, and called him by his given name, WROTE Iesous as his name in greek when they wrote the gospels and epistles. If his own friends and disciples thought it was OK to call him Iesous in their official writings, what right does sonofyah, a person who never knew the historical Jesus, nor anyone who knew him, to come and say that Jesus' own disciples were wrong?

We DO know that the NT was written in Greek. It is a historical fact.

[sonofyah]

no, friend...YOU read carefully. we're going to do this ONE time.

no. phil. 2:9 says that the son is given the name that is "above every name." this is not a matter of being an english name or a hebrew name or a greek name or a pagan deity name; this is a matter of authority. the son has been given authority. and verses 10 and 11 use the word "jesus," which tells me that in the original texts (which were greek, if i'm not mistaken) used the transliteration "iesous" for the name "yahshua." so in order for you to have any beef about the name jesus, you MUST show that these are faulty transliterations. because the absolute reality of it, as Mystery has already pointed out, is that you CANNOT spell a hebraic name in hebraic characters when you are writing with greek letters. if the greek language used hebraic characters, then it would be hebrew.

what language was revelation written in?

nobody's got a beef with yahweh. but i am curious how you DARE to call him "yhwh" and not actually write his name in the hebrew letters.

you claimed to know something about the languages. i assumed you were being honest. if you aren't going to be honest, then close your mouth about it.

then you should not spell it "yhwh." at this point, you will begin to post the hebraic letters, or i will no longer take you seriously. you are contradicting yourself.

that's funny.

actually, there is need to translate his name into other languages. do you know how to write "michael jackson" in japanese? i'm guessing you don't. but i can tell you, it doesn't look like "michael jackson"--though it would be pronounced similarly, japanese uses completely different characters than english does.

well, again, you're the one spelling it "yhwh" instead of YHWH.

well, i don't speak hebrew...so praise yah, somebody showed me how to spell his name in english!

i have no desire to rebuke you. but if i did, i would simply share with you Isaiah 9:6--
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

actually, that's not the basis of my argument. the basis of my argument is that YOU are assuming the greek new testament is ERRED. so why don't you get to the real point and start showing us how it got to be so corrupt.

I'm going to say a couple of things to you.

BEFORE there was Greek there was YHWH
BEFORE there was Hebrew there was YHWH
BEFORE there was Latin there was and still is YHWH
BEFORE there was Earth there was YHWH
BEFORE there was Air there was YHWH
BEFORE there was Sleep there was YHWH
BEFORE there was TIME there was YHWH.

However the scriptures is written there Names are the SAME. Never losing pronunciation. You really have a lot to learn sweetie and I hope you ask the Holy Spirit for that help.

PS there is no vowels in any ancient language.
YHWH.

If you know his name is YHWH (Yahweh) leave me alone.

[technomage]

there is no vowels in any ancient language.


Again incorrect--ancient Greek had vowels.

[semmie]

I'm going to say a couple of things to you.

BEFORE there was Greek there was YHWH
BEFORE there was Hebrew there was YHWH
BEFORE there was Latin there was and still is YHWH
BEFORE there was Earth there was YHWH
BEFORE there was Air there was YHWH
BEFORE there was Sleep there was YHWH
BEFORE there was TIME there was YHWH.


do you or do you not realize that "YHWH" is a transliteration of the hebrew name YHWH ???

if you DO, then why are you telling us that we are wrong for the transliteration of the name Yahshua into Iesous, Iesu, Jesus?

i find it humorously annoying that you refuse to address the questions asked of you. instead, you merely shoot your foot in attempt to scare everybody off. :no:

and for the record, my name is sarah. you may call me "sarah" or you may call me "semmie." "sweetie" will not be an option, no matter how well you intended it.

[technomage]

Abram, the biggest problem is that you are presenting yourself in such a manner that one who reads will believe that you feel the name "Jesus" is positively wrong. Even the website of your association, it is said....

The original name of our Messiah, Yeshua/Y’shua, is also being revealed to the Father’s people. Yeshua is what Messiah was known by to His early followers and this Hebrew name means “Salvation.” We encourage Believers to use Yeshua, but also recognize that many have come to faith through the English name Jesus Christ. Unlike some in the Messianic community, we do not believe that the English name “Jesus” comes from pagan origins and is derived from “Zeus.” Rather, the English name “Jesus” stems from the Greek name Iesous, which is the Greek transliteration used in the Septuagint for Yeshua by the Jewish translator rabbis some 300 years before Messiah.

Now, to be sure, it also says "However, even so, we do not necessarily encourage usage of the name Jesus," but even so--your association acknowledges that many Christians became saved by calling on the name Jesus. But your manner of presentation makes it seem that you, personally, actively oppose calling Yehoshua by that name.

My friend, I do not tell this to you to make you feel like an ineffective communicator, though it must be admitted that your communication here has not been terribly clear at times. And I do not tell you this to chide you. I tell you this to help you clarify your mesage, so that in the future there is no confsion between what you say, and what you mean.

[wfaber]

PS there is no vowels in any ancient language.
YHWH.
There were no vowels in the ancient Hebrew alphabet. But they still pronounced vowel sounds. And the Masoretes added them centuries later to aid in the pronunciation of words.

It was definitely a bad idea they had to take the vowels of 'edonay and add them to YHWH to get YEHOWAH. But they did it because the name Yahweh was not pronounced for such a long time that noboby was sure how to pronounce it. And from what I understand, scholars aren't 100% certain that Yahweh is the right pronunciation.

This thread is becoming monotonous. Instead of the issue being whether or not we should add the vowels, I think the bigger issue is SO WHAT!!!!!

Are you condemning the rest of us who don't care whether or not there are vowels? Should we burn the Masoretic Text because they put them in? Letters are only pieces of ink on paper telling us how to correctly pronounce somebody's name.

[sonofyah]

no, friend...YOU read carefully. we're going to do this ONE time.

no. phil. 2:9 says that the son is given the name that is "above every name." this is not a matter of being an english name or a hebrew name or a greek name or a pagan deity name; this is a matter of authority. the son has been given authority. and verses 10 and 11 use the word "jesus," which tells me that in the original texts (which were greek, if i'm not mistaken) used the transliteration "iesous" for the name "yahshua." so in order for you to have any beef about the name jesus, you MUST show that these are faulty transliterations. because the absolute reality of it, as Mystery has already pointed out, is that you CANNOT spell a hebraic name in hebraic characters when you are writing with greek letters. if the greek language used hebraic characters, then it would be hebrew.

what language was revelation written in?

nobody's got a beef with yahweh. but i am curious how you DARE to call him "yhwh" and not actually write his name in the hebrew letters.

you claimed to know something about the languages. i assumed you were being honest. if you aren't going to be honest, then close your mouth about it.

then you should not spell it "yhwh." at this point, you will begin to post the hebraic letters, or i will no longer take you seriously. you are contradicting yourself.

that's funny.

actually, there is need to translate his name into other languages. do you know how to write "michael jackson" in japanese? i'm guessing you don't. but i can tell you, it doesn't look like "michael jackson"--though it would be pronounced similarly, japanese uses completely different characters than english does.

well, again, you're the one spelling it "yhwh" instead of YHWH.

well, i don't speak hebrew...so praise yah, somebody showed me how to spell his name in english!

i have no desire to rebuke you. but if i did, i would simply share with you Isaiah 9:6--
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

actually, that's not the basis of my argument. the basis of my argument is that YOU are assuming the greek new testament is ERRED. so why don't you get to the real point and start showing us how it got to be so corrupt.

I want you to read this carefully. In accordance to Isaiah 9:6 Yahshua meaning the Salvation of YHWH have what you call COMMON names. Common names decribe you. Yes he is The lion of the tribe of Yahudah, wonder,consellor, strong El, father of continuity, and prince of peace. That's fine to call him those names because they are like nicknames to us like sonofyah, acupofmystery, and yamyam. What I am speaking of is his proper name like Yahoshua. There is only ONE name given unto men by which they must be saved Acts 4:12...See YHWH said I AM THAT I AM meaning my existance is my existance....I AM....there is a common name you can give the Great I Am. Elohim, El Shaddai, El are examples of common names that have been given but his proper name will never change. It existed before TIME.

[sonofyah]

I want you to read this carefully. In accordance to Isaiah 9:6 Yahshua meaning the Salvation of YHWH have what you call COMMON names. Common names decribe you. Yes he is The lion of the tribe of Yahudah, wonder,consellor, strong El, father of continuity, and prince of peace. That's fine to call him those names because they are like nicknames to us like sonofyah, acupofmystery, and yamyam. What I am speaking of is his proper name like Yahoshua. There is only ONE name given unto men by which they must be saved Acts 4:12...See YHWH said I AM THAT I AM meaning my existance is my existance....I AM....there is a common name you can give the Great I Am. Elohim, El Shaddai, El are examples of common names that have been given but his proper name will never change. It existed before TIME.

BOTTOM LINE:

Yahshua has been a victim of identity theft.

Please applaude Jesus, LORD, God and Logos for such a wonderful job at stealing the identity of the Messiah while he is gone. BUT REMEMBER:

He'll be Baaaaaaccccccckkkkkkkkkkk

[semmie]

sonof,

i won't ask you to honestly respond to this, because honest response doesn't appear to be your forte. i will, however, ask you to acknowledge that you read this post of mine:
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1156870&postcount=78

[Sparko]

Semmie, he has ignored my posts twice, too. He is just a troll. He knows he has no argument so all he can do is repeat himself and ignore what anyone else says. I suggest we return the favor and ignore him.

[semmie]

ah, sparks...i wish i could ignore him.

the problem with the Sacred Name movement, as far as i can tell, is that it teaches people (like sonofyah, here) that christians who speak the name "jesus" have no idea why they speak it or what it means or who it refers to.

but i can't ignore him, sparks. it's too close to my heart. :doh:

kick me.

[technomage]

ah, sparks...i wish i could ignore him.

the problem with the Sacred Name movement, as far as i can tell, is that it teaches people (like sonofyah, here) that christians who speak the name "jesus" have no idea why they speak it or what it means or who it refers to.

but i can't ignore him, sparks. it's too close to my heart. :doh:

kick me.
More like pity you, you stubborn, hard-headed goon. :hug:

Though I understand ... all too well. :demure:

[sonofyah]

Semmie, he has ignored my posts twice, too. He is just a troll. He knows he has no argument so all he can do is repeat himself and ignore what anyone else says. I suggest we return the favor and ignore him.

Im sorry you guys forgive me. I have death in the family and i thought you guys didnt want to talk with me any more. I ask Dee Dee to show me how to answer the quotes individually like you do. Im waiting for her response. Again I apologize.

[sonofyah]

ah, sparks...i wish i could ignore him.

the problem with the Sacred Name movement, as far as i can tell, is that it teaches people (like sonofyah, here) that christians who speak the name "jesus" have no idea why they speak it or what it means or who it refers to.

but i can't ignore him, sparks. it's too close to my heart. :doh:

kick me.

We are going to end this between you and I once and for all. If you feel that the name YHWH is error fine. If you feel the name Yahshua is error, fine. But if you feel like it is one of his many names then why are you responding. My original question was:

What is the true name of the Messiah and why isnt it spoken today?

[technomage]

Im sorry you guys forgive me. I have death in the family and i thought you guys didnt want to talk with me any more. I ask Dee Dee to show me how to answer the quotes individually like you do. Im waiting for her response. Again I apologize.

Abram, I'm sorry to hear of the death in your family, and I am praying for you and your family.

As for the quotes ... when you hit the "Reply" link at the bottom of the quote, you'll see that the text has QUOTE tags around it, like this:

Quoted text

When you want to quote a relevant passage from someone elses message, you have to put the tag at the beginning of the part you want to quote, and the tag at the end of the part you want to quote.

[sonofyah]

More like pity you, you stubborn, hard-headed goon. :hug:

Though I understand ... all too well. :demure:

What good is name calling going to do.

[Sparko]

Im sorry you guys forgive me. I have death in the family and i thought you guys didnt want to talk with me any more. I ask Dee Dee to show me how to answer the quotes individually like you do. Im waiting for her response. Again I apologize.

I am sorry to hear of the death in your family, sonofyah. Take care and don't worry about this thread.

To separate individual quotes out in a post, first press the reply button under the post you are responding to. That will bring up the editor window with the post enclosed as quoted text. You will notice that the quoted text starts with [ quote ] and ends with [ /quote ] (minus the spaces I put in, so the tags will show up here for you to see..

Just put those tags around any text you want to quote separately. You can also select the text with your mouse, and press the quote button in the editor toobar. It looks like a white oval with an exclamation point in it (!)

It will put the quote tags around the text you have selected.

[sonofyah]

Semmie, he has ignored my posts twice, too. He is just a troll. He knows he has no argument so all he can do is repeat himself and ignore what anyone else says. I suggest we return the favor and ignore him.

1 Timothy 6

[sonofyah]

You know what NAME these Holy Scriptures is talking about? NAME is not plural.


2 CHRONICLES 2:4 an house to the NAME of the LORD my
2 CHRONICLES 3:17 left; and called the NAME of that on the
2 CHRONICLES 3:17 hand Jachin, and the NAME of that on the
2 CHRONICLES 6:5 house in, that my NAME might be there; neither
2 CHRONICLES 6:6 chosen Jerusalem, that my NAME might be there; and
2 CHRONICLES 6:7 an house for the NAME of the LORD God
2 CHRONICLES 6:8 an house for my NAME, thou didst well in
2 CHRONICLES 6:9 loins, he shall build the house for my NAME.
2 CHRONICLES 6:10 the house for the NAME of the LORD God
2 CHRONICLES 6:20 thou wouldest put thy NAME there; to hearken unto
2 CHRONICLES 6:24 return and confess thy NAME, and pray and make
2 CHRONICLES 6:26 place, and confess thy NAME, and turn from their
2 CHRONICLES 6:32 country for thy great NAME's sake, and thy mighty
2 CHRONICLES 6:33 earth may know thy NAME, and fear thee, as
2 CHRONICLES 6:33 which I have built is called by thy NAME.
2 CHRONICLES 6:34 the house which I have built for thy NAME;
2 CHRONICLES 6:38 the house which I have built for thy NAME:
2 CHRONICLES 7:14 are called by my NAME, shall humble themselves, and
2 CHRONICLES 7:16 this house, that my NAME may be there for
2 CHRONICLES 7:20 have sanctified for my NAME, will I cast out
2 CHRONICLES 12:13 Israel, to put his NAME there. And his mother's
2 CHRONICLES 12:13 there. And his mother's NAME was Naamah an Ammonitess.
2 CHRONICLES 13:2 in Jerusalem. His mother's NAME also was Michaiah the
2 CHRONICLES 14:11 thee, and in thy NAME we go against this
2 CHRONICLES 18:15 truth to me in the NAME of the LORD?
2 CHRONICLES 20:8 built thee a sanctuary therein for thy NAME, saying,
2 CHRONICLES 20:9 thy presence, (for thy NAME is in this house,)
PSALM 8:1 how excellent is thy NAME in all the earth!
PSALM 8:9 how excellent is thy NAME in all the earth!
PSALM 9:2 sing praise to thy NAME, O thou most High.
PSALM 9:5 hast put out their NAME for ever and ever.
PSALM 9:10 they that know thy NAME will put their trust
PSALM 18:49 among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy NAME.
PSALM 20:1 day of trouble; the NAME of the God of
PSALM 20:5 salvation, and in the NAME of our God we
PSALM 20:7 we will remember the NAME of the LORD our
PSALM 22:22 I will declare thy NAME unto my brethren: in
PSALM 29:2 glory due unto his NAME; worship the LORD in
PSALM 33:21 him, because we have trusted in his holy NAME.
PSALM 34:3 with me, and let us exalt his NAME together.
PSALM 41:5 me, When shall he die, and his NAME perish?
PSALM 44:5 our enemies: through thy NAME will we tread them
PSALM 44:8 day long, and praise thy NAME for ever. Selah.
PSALM 44:20 we have forgotten the NAME of our God, or
PSALM 45:17 I will make thy NAME to be remembered in
PSALM 48:10 According to thy NAME, O God, so is thy
PSALM 52:9 will wait on thy NAME; for it is good
PSALM 54:1 O God, by thy NAME, and judge me by
PSALM 54:6 I will praise thy NAME, O LORD; for it
PSALM 61:5 me the heritage of those that fear thy NAME.
PSALM 61:8 sing praise unto thy NAME for ever, that I
PSALM 63:4 I will lift up my hands in thy NAME.
PSALM 66:2 the honour of his NAME: make his praise glorious.
PSALM 66:4 unto thee; they shall sing to thy NAME. Selah.
PSALM 68:4 sing praises to his NAME: extol him that rideth
PSALM 68:4 the heavens by his NAME JAH, and rejoice before
PSALM 69:30 I will praise the NAME of God with a
PSALM 69:36 and they that love his NAME shall dwell therein.
PSALM 72:17 His NAME shall endure for ever: his NAME shall
PSALM 72:17 endure for ever: his NAME shall be continued as
PSALM 72:19 blessed be his glorious NAME for ever: and let
PSALM 74:7 the dwelling place of thy NAME to the ground.
PSALM 74:10 reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy NAME for ever?
PSALM 74:18 and that the foolish people have blasphemed thy NAME.
PSALM 74:21 ashamed: let the poor and needy praise thy NAME.
PSALM 75:1 thanks: for that thy NAME is near thy wondrous
PSALM 76:1 is God known: his NAME is great in Israel.
PSALM 79:6 the kingdoms that have not called upon thy NAME.
PSALM 79:9 the glory of thy NAME: and deliver us, and
PSALM 79:9 and purge away our sins, for thy NAME's sake.
PSALM 80:18 quicken us, and we will call upon thy NAME.
PSALM 83:4 a nation; that the NAME of Israel may be
PSALM 83:16 shame; that they may seek thy NAME, O LORD.
PSALM 86:9 before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy NAME.
PSALM 86:11 thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy NAME.
PSALM 86:12 heart: and I will glorify thy NAME for evermore.
PSALM 89:12 them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy NAME.
PSALM 89:16 In thy NAME shall they rejoice all the day:
PSALM 89:24 him: and in my NAME shall his horn be
PSALM 91:14 him on high, because he hath known my NAME.
PSALM 92:1 TO SING PRAISES UNTO THY NAME, O MOST HIGH:
PSALM 96:2 the LORD, bless his NAME; shew forth his salvation
PSALM 96:8 glory due unto his NAME: bring an offering, and
PSALM 99:3 thy great and terrible NAME; for it is holy.
PSALM 99:6 that call upon his NAME; they called upon the
PSALM 100:4 praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his NAME.
PSALM 102:15 heathen shall fear the NAME of the LORD, and
PSALM 102:21 To declare the NAME of the LORD in Zion,
PSALM 103:1 all that is within me, bless his holy NAME.
PSALM 105:1 LORD; call upon his NAME: make known his deeds
PSALM 105:3 ye in his holy NAME: let the heart of
PSALM 106:8 saved them for his NAME's sake, that he might
PSALM 106:47 thanks unto thy holy NAME, and to triumph in
PSALM 109:13 the generation following let their NAME be blotted out.
PSALM 109:21 the Lord, for thy NAME's sake: because thy mercy
PSALM 111:9 covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his NAME.
PSALM 113:1 of the LORD, praise the NAME of the LORD.
PSALM 113:2 Blessed be the NAME of the LORD from this
PSALM 113:3 the same the LORD's NAME is to be praised.
PSALM 115:1 us, but unto thy NAME give glory, for thy
PSALM 116:4 called I upon the NAME of the LORD; O
PSALM 116:13 salvation, and call upon the NAME of the LORD.
PSALM 116:17 and will call upon the NAME of the LORD.
PSALM 118:10 about: but in the NAME of the LORD will
PSALM 118:11 about: but in the NAME of the LORD I
PSALM 118:12 thorns: for in the NAME of the LORD I
PSALM 118:26 that cometh in the NAME of the LORD: we
PSALM 119:55 I have remembered thy NAME, O LORD, in the
PSALM 119:132 usest to do unto those that love thy NAME.
PSALM 122:4 to give thanks unto the NAME of the LORD.
PSALM 124:8 help is in the NAME of the LORD, who
PSALM 129:8 we bless you in the NAME of the LORD.
PSALM 135:1 LORD. Praise ye the NAME of the LORD; praise
PSALM 135:3 sing praises unto his NAME; for it is pleasant.
PSALM 135:13 Thy NAME, O LORD, endureth for ever; and thy
PSALM 138:2 temple, and praise thy NAME for thy lovingkindness and
PSALM 138:2 thou hast magnified thy word above all thy NAME.
PSALM 139:20 wickedly, and thine enemies take thy NAME in vain.
PSALM 140:13 give thanks unto thy NAME: the upright shall dwell
PSALM 142:7 I may praise thy NAME: the righteous shall compass
PSALM 145:1 I will bless thy NAME for ever and ever.
PSALM 145:2 I will praise thy NAME for ever and ever.
PSALM 145:21 flesh bless his holy NAME for ever and ever.
PSALM 148:5 Let them praise the NAME of the LORD: for
PSALM 148:13 Let them praise the NAME of the LORD: for
PSALM 148:13 the LORD: for his NAME alone is excellent; his
PSALM 149:3 Let them praise his NAME in the dance: let
PROVERBS 10:7 is blessed: but the NAME of the wicked shall
PROVERBS 18:10 The NAME of the LORD is a strong tower:
PROVERBS 21:24 haughty scorner is his NAME, who dealeth in proud
PROVERBS 22:1 A GOOD NAME is rather to be chosen than
PROVERBS 30:4 earth? what is his NAME, and what is his
PROVERBS 30:4 what is his son's NAME, if thou canst tell?
PROVERBS 30:9 steal, and take the NAME of my God in
ECCLESIASTES 6:4 in darkness, and his NAME shall be covered with
ECCLESIASTES 7:1 A good NAME is better than precious ointment; and
SONG OF SOLOMON 1:3 thy good ointments thy NAME is as ointment poured
ISAIAH 4:1 be called by thy NAME, to take away our

[technomage]

What good is name calling going to do.
Abram, I frequently express amity, respect, or friendship with affectionate name-calling. Though I try to reserve such behavior for those who know I have a strange sense of humor.

I wasn't actually trying to hurt Semmie's feelings, but let her know that I understood her point of view.

[studyhound]

You know what NAME these Holy Scriptures is talking about? NAME is not plural.


2 CHRONICLES 2:4 an house to the NAME of the LORD my
2 CHRONICLES 3:17 left; and called the NAME of that on the
2 CHRONICLES 3:17 hand Jachin, and the NAME of that on the
2 CHRONICLES 6:5 house in, that my NAME might be there; neither
2 CHRONICLES 6:6 chosen Jerusalem, that my NAME might be there; and
2 CHRONICLES 6:7 an house for the NAME of the LORD God
2 CHRONICLES 6:8 an house for my NAME, thou didst well in
2 CHRONICLES 6:9 loins, he shall build the house for my NAME.
2 CHRONICLES 6:10 the house for the NAME of the LORD God
2 CHRONICLES 6:20 thou wouldest put thy NAME there; to hearken unto
2 CHRONICLES 6:24 return and confess thy NAME, and pray and make
2 CHRONICLES 6:26 place, and confess thy NAME, and turn from their
2 CHRONICLES 6:32 country for thy great NAME's sake, and thy mighty
2 CHRONICLES 6:33 earth may know thy NAME, and fear thee, as
2 CHRONICLES 6:33 which I have built is called by thy NAME.
2 CHRONICLES 6:34 the house which I have built for thy NAME;
2 CHRONICLES 6:38 the house which I have built for thy NAME:
2 CHRONICLES 7:14 are called by my NAME, shall humble themselves, and
2 CHRONICLES 7:16 this house, that my NAME may be there for
2 CHRONICLES 7:20 have sanctified for my NAME, will I cast out
2 CHRONICLES 12:13 Israel, to put his NAME there. And his mother's
2 CHRONICLES 12:13 there. And his mother's NAME was Naamah an Ammonitess.
2 CHRONICLES 13:2 in Jerusalem. His mother's NAME also was Michaiah the
2 CHRONICLES 14:11 thee, and in thy NAME we go against this
2 CHRONICLES 18:15 truth to me in the NAME of the LORD?
2 CHRONICLES 20:8 built thee a sanctuary therein for thy NAME, saying,
2 CHRONICLES 20:9 thy presence, (for thy NAME is in this house,)
PSALM 8:1 how excellent is thy NAME in all the earth!
PSALM 8:9 how excellent is thy NAME in all the earth!
PSALM 9:2 sing praise to thy NAME, O thou most High.
PSALM 9:5 hast put out their NAME for ever and ever.
PSALM 9:10 they that know thy NAME will put their trust
PSALM 18:49 among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy NAME.
PSALM 20:1 day of trouble; the NAME of the God of
PSALM 20:5 salvation, and in the NAME of our God we
PSALM 20:7 we will remember the NAME of the LORD our
PSALM 22:22 I will declare thy NAME unto my brethren: in
PSALM 29:2 glory due unto his NAME; worship the LORD in
PSALM 33:21 him, because we have trusted in his holy NAME.
PSALM 34:3 with me, and let us exalt his NAME together.
PSALM 41:5 me, When shall he die, and his NAME perish?
PSALM 44:5 our enemies: through thy NAME will we tread them
PSALM 44:8 day long, and praise thy NAME for ever. Selah.
PSALM 44:20 we have forgotten the NAME of our God, or
PSALM 45:17 I will make thy NAME to be remembered in
PSALM 48:10 According to thy NAME, O God, so is thy
PSALM 52:9 will wait on thy NAME; for it is good
PSALM 54:1 O God, by thy NAME, and judge me by
PSALM 54:6 I will praise thy NAME, O LORD; for it
PSALM 61:5 me the heritage of those that fear thy NAME.
PSALM 61:8 sing praise unto thy NAME for ever, that I
PSALM 63:4 I will lift up my hands in thy NAME.
PSALM 66:2 the honour of his NAME: make his praise glorious.
PSALM 66:4 unto thee; they shall sing to thy NAME. Selah.
PSALM 68:4 sing praises to his NAME: extol him that rideth
PSALM 68:4 the heavens by his NAME JAH, and rejoice before
PSALM 69:30 I will praise the NAME of God with a
PSALM 69:36 and they that love his NAME shall dwell therein.
PSALM 72:17 His NAME shall endure for ever: his NAME shall
PSALM 72:17 endure for ever: his NAME shall be continued as
PSALM 72:19 blessed be his glorious NAME for ever: and let
PSALM 74:7 the dwelling place of thy NAME to the ground.
PSALM 74:10 reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy NAME for ever?
PSALM 74:18 and that the foolish people have blasphemed thy NAME.
PSALM 74:21 ashamed: let the poor and needy praise thy NAME.
PSALM 75:1 thanks: for that thy NAME is near thy wondrous
PSALM 76:1 is God known: his NAME is great in Israel.
PSALM 79:6 the kingdoms that have not called upon thy NAME.
PSALM 79:9 the glory of thy NAME: and deliver us, and
PSALM 79:9 and purge away our sins, for thy NAME's sake.
PSALM 80:18 quicken us, and we will call upon thy NAME.
PSALM 83:4 a nation; that the NAME of Israel may be
PSALM 83:16 shame; that they may seek thy NAME, O LORD.
PSALM 86:9 before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy NAME.
PSALM 86:11 thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy NAME.
PSALM 86:12 heart: and I will glorify thy NAME for evermore.
PSALM 89:12 them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy NAME.
PSALM 89:16 In thy NAME shall they rejoice all the day:
PSALM 89:24 him: and in my NAME shall his horn be
PSALM 91:14 him on high, because he hath known my NAME.
PSALM 92:1 TO SING PRAISES UNTO THY NAME, O MOST HIGH:
PSALM 96:2 the LORD, bless his NAME; shew forth his salvation
PSALM 96:8 glory due unto his NAME: bring an offering, and
PSALM 99:3 thy great and terrible NAME; for it is holy.
PSALM 99:6 that call upon his NAME; they called upon the
PSALM 100:4 praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his NAME.
PSALM 102:15 heathen shall fear the NAME of the LORD, and
PSALM 102:21 To declare the NAME of the LORD in Zion,
PSALM 103:1 all that is within me, bless his holy NAME.
PSALM 105:1 LORD; call upon his NAME: make known his deeds
PSALM 105:3 ye in his holy NAME: let the heart of
PSALM 106:8 saved them for his NAME's sake, that he might
PSALM 106:47 thanks unto thy holy NAME, and to triumph in
PSALM 109:13 the generation following let their NAME be blotted out.
PSALM 109:21 the Lord, for thy NAME's sake: because thy mercy
PSALM 111:9 covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his NAME.
PSALM 113:1 of the LORD, praise the NAME of the LORD.
PSALM 113:2 Blessed be the NAME of the LORD from this
PSALM 113:3 the same the LORD's NAME is to be praised.
PSALM 115:1 us, but unto thy NAME give glory, for thy
PSALM 116:4 called I upon the NAME of the LORD; O
PSALM 116:13 salvation, and call upon the NAME of the LORD.
PSALM 116:17 and will call upon the NAME of the LORD.
PSALM 118:10 about: but in the NAME of the LORD will
PSALM 118:11 about: but in the NAME of the LORD I
PSALM 118:12 thorns: for in the NAME of the LORD I
PSALM 118:26 that cometh in the NAME of the LORD: we
PSALM 119:55 I have remembered thy NAME, O LORD, in the
PSALM 119:132 usest to do unto those that love thy NAME.
PSALM 122:4 to give thanks unto the NAME of the LORD.
PSALM 124:8 help is in the NAME of the LORD, who
PSALM 129:8 we bless you in the NAME of the LORD.
PSALM 135:1 LORD. Praise ye the NAME of the LORD; praise
PSALM 135:3 sing praises unto his NAME; for it is pleasant.
PSALM 135:13 Thy NAME, O LORD, endureth for ever; and thy
PSALM 138:2 temple, and praise thy NAME for thy lovingkindness and
PSALM 138:2 thou hast magnified thy word above all thy NAME.
PSALM 139:20 wickedly, and thine enemies take thy NAME in vain.
PSALM 140:13 give thanks unto thy NAME: the upright shall dwell
PSALM 142:7 I may praise thy NAME: the righteous shall compass
PSALM 145:1 I will bless thy NAME for ever and ever.
PSALM 145:2 I will praise thy NAME for ever and ever.
PSALM 145:21 flesh bless his holy NAME for ever and ever.
PSALM 148:5 Let them praise the NAME of the LORD: for
PSALM 148:13 Let them praise the NAME of the LORD: for
PSALM 148:13 the LORD: for his NAME alone is excellent; his
PSALM 149:3 Let them praise his NAME in the dance: let
PROVERBS 10:7 is blessed: but the NAME of the wicked shall
PROVERBS 18:10 The NAME of the LORD is a strong tower:
PROVERBS 21:24 haughty scorner is his NAME, who dealeth in proud
PROVERBS 22:1 A GOOD NAME is rather to be chosen than
PROVERBS 30:4 earth? what is his NAME, and what is his
PROVERBS 30:4 what is his son's NAME, if thou canst tell?
PROVERBS 30:9 steal, and take the NAME of my God in
ECCLESIASTES 6:4 in darkness, and his NAME shall be covered with
ECCLESIASTES 7:1 A good NAME is better than precious ointment; and
SONG OF SOLOMON 1:3 thy good ointments thy NAME is as ointment poured
ISAIAH 4:1 be called by thy NAME, to take away our

Well considering most of these are void of context I would wager to say they are speaking about one individual.

That said one I did notice was the one:
PROVERBS 10:7 is blessed: but the NAME of the wicked shall

in the KJv
7 The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot.

So this name means????

I would guess by his opening statment that he is talking about God's name. So I wonder if he still hold to that. Also it appears in several of those other verses in context are about some other persona than God.

I guess if you dont have an way to refute people just spam the threat with verses taken out of context.

:sh:

:sh:

[Yamyam]

[QUOTE=Yamyam]

I'm sure God doesn't have any problem understanding who's talking to him.
God wouldn't listen because you don't use the right name

If you can find your words in the holy scriptures I will repent.
Because of your carelessness in quoting I can't understand what you're saying.
I have anyhow 1 question for you:
Do you think God can't/won't/doesn't hear US because we call Him God in stead of JHWH???

[Sparko]

1 Timothy 6

Good call.

You should read 1 Tim 6:3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions

Sounds like Paul has you pegged.

And his advice?

1 Tim 6:20Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, 21which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith.

[semmie]

We are going to end this between you and I once and for all. If you feel that the name YHWH is error fine. If you feel the name Yahshua is error, fine. But if you feel like it is one of his many names then why are you responding. My original question was:

What is the true name of the Messiah and why isnt it spoken today?

sonofyah,

firstly, i am sorry to hear about the death in your family. i pray that you and all of yours will be comforted in this difficult time.

secondly, don't feel that you need to be here discussing things. we can understand that you have more important things going on right now. and when you can come back to post, most of us will still be here and be ready to talk with you.

thirdly, i'm sorry you think we need to stop talking (you and me). i never said, however, that the names "YHWH" and "Yahshua" are in error. what i did say is that these are Hebrew names that you are spelling with english letters. this is the same kind of transliteration that you are telling us is unacceptable in the greek usage of "Iesous" in the New Testament. it is a self-contradictory stance.

fourthly, to answer your question--i acknowledge that the name "Jesus" means "Yahweh is Salvation" or "Yah Saves" or something of that nature. i also acknowledge that "Jesus" doesn't sound exactly the same as "Yahshua." but i ALSO acknowledge that the names "Yahshua" and "Jesus" are merely english transliterations of the SAME NAME. they are not in contention with each other. so...i would argue that we DO use the messiah's name.

again, i pray that god would grant you all peace in this difficult time in your family. i do look forward to your response, but don't rush to get here. i'll be around whenever you have time to stop in.

be blessed,
~sarah

[Provoker]

Hi folks:
Let me offer a logical statement which may fit the situation:
If an honest author, who cannot lie, writes a book in known languages, he implies that it can be completely understood according to the common rules of language:-)

I'm for the publishing of a new bible, in which the only transliterated words, are ones for which no English meaning is known, but I somehow doubt that one will ever be published...LOL

[semmie]

are you suggesting that there are hebrew and greek words in the original texts that we don't know what their meanings are?

[7thangel]

What is the true name of the Messiah and why isnt it spoken today?

A "name" is an honor or title in which one can be called. For examples: Doctor, Nurse, Judge, Prince, Savior, etc. In old times people are called, not necessarily by name, but by how they were best remembered, ie, farmer, logger, boxer, Jolly, One-eyed pirate, etc.

Whether we call Jesus the Messiah, or Christ, or Saviour, or Counselor, or Prince of Peace, or King of Kings, Son of man, he is still the same Prophet we speak of.

Unfortunately, some do not know who the Messiah is, so they do not know his name.

[sonofyah]

Well considering most of these are void of context I would wager to say they are speaking about one individual.

That said one I did notice was the one:
PROVERBS 10:7 is blessed: but the NAME of the wicked shall

in the KJv
7 The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot.

So this name means????

I would guess by his opening statment that he is talking about God's name. So I wonder if he still hold to that. Also it appears in several of those other verses in context are about some other persona than God.

I guess if you dont have an way to refute people just spam the threat with verses taken out of context.

:sh:

:sh:
how did i know someone would pick the verses that have nothing to do with YHWH out and talk about it. LOL....typical....you understood my point...Since your so smart and you dont like spam...What is the Name that was said to Sual in this verse....

Acts 26:14-15

[Sparko]

how did i know someone would pick the verses that have nothing to do with YHWH out and talk about it. LOL....typical....you understood my point...Since your so smart and you dont like spam...What is the Name that was said to Sual in this verse....

Acts 26:14-15

Jesus.

Here is one for you. Why is Paul called 'Saul' and 'Paul' in different places in the scriptures? and did he answer to both?

[studyhound]

how did i know someone would pick the verses that have nothing to do with YHWH out and talk about it. LOL....typical....you understood my point...
No my point was you are not engaging a discussion you are posting nonsense verse hoping people wont check your work. Tipical of a troll to post so many verse that they dont even know wat there posting.

If you want to prove a point then be up front and honest, rather than posting verses that dont support and in fact are tottaly irrelivent to your point.

Since your so smart and you dont like spam...What is the Name that was said to Sual in this verse....

Acts 26:14-15

Jesus

[Yamyam]

Jesus.

Here is one for you. Why is Paul called 'Saul' and 'Paul' in different places in the scriptures? and did he answer to both?

I just read: Saul was his name before he got salved.

[Sparko]

I just read: Saul was his name before he got salved.

Actually Saul is his Hebrew name, and Paul is the Roman version (the transliteration) of his name. Just like Iesous is in Greek what Jesus is in English, or Yeshua in Hebrew.

Paul has no problem using or responding to either name, Saul or Paul.

[studyhound]

Actually Saul is his Hebrew name, and Paul is the Roman version (the transliteration) of his name. Just like Iesous is in Greek what Jesus is in English, or Yeshua in Hebrew.

Paul has no problem using or responding to either name, Saul or Paul.

Also he was called Saul after his convertion, for quite a few years also, IIRC on the dates, up to 5-7 years.

:sh:

[sonofyah]

Also he was called Saul after his convertion, for quite a few years also, IIRC on the dates, up to 5-7 years.

:sh:
Thats not what I am asking. WHAT DID THE MESSIAH SAY HIS NAME WAS IN VERSE 15?

[studyhound]

Thats not what I am asking. WHAT DID THE MESSIAH SAY HIS NAME WAS IN VERSE 15?

:sigh: Try staying caught up with the thread its not to hard just a little common sense, and look at my answer in the previous post (104) (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1158791&postcount=104)

[Yamyam]

:sigh: Try staying caught up with the thread its not to hard just a little common sense, and look at my answer in the previous post (104) (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1158791&postcount=104)
Sonofyah, I would appreciate it if you would answer my question I asked you and is right at the bottom of the last page I believe, plus I think it would be more credible and maybe even convincing if you would quote all the verses shown in this topic as a proof against your claim(s) and explain specifically why it isn't a proof you think.
It seems to me you're ignoring some vital arguments right from within the bible.

[Sparko]

Sonofyah, I would appreciate it if you would answer my question I asked you and is right at the bottom of the last page I believe, plus I think it would be more credible and maybe even convincing if you would quote all the verses shown in this topic as a proof against your claim(s) and explain specifically why it isn't a proof you think.
It seems to me you're ignoring some vital arguments right from within the bible.

Yeah he keeps asking for us to quote verses to him from the bible and when we do he ignores them. Sounds like he is not really interested in the truth or debate, just trolling.

[sonofyah]

No my point was you are not engaging a discussion you are posting nonsense verse hoping people wont check your work. Tipical of a troll to post so many verse that they dont even know wat there posting.

If you want to prove a point then be up front and honest, rather than posting verses that dont support and in fact are tottaly irrelivent to your point.



Jesus
Why do you call me names. Are you upset. I apologize. If you disagree that is ok. I dont think you are showing fourth the Love of YHWH. 1 John 4:6 says YHWH is Love. The Name above every Name is important and that Name is Yahoshua. If you think the Scriptures say that he was given the Names above all Names then fine (Phil 2:9). Matthew 1:21 says he will be given a Name the means he will save his people and that Name have to be Yahoshua because that means the Salvation of YHWH. The reason his Name is the Salvation of YHWH is because he said he comes in His Fathers Name and salvation is only found in and through him. I hope you know what the Fathers Name is. But just in case you dont know I want you to read the 15th and 16th paragraph in the NIV bible below:


In regard to the divine name YHWH, commonly referred to as the Tetragrammaton, the translators adopted the device used in most English versions of rendering that name as "Lord" in capital letters to distinguish it from Adonai, another Hebrew word rendered "Lord," for which small letters are used. Wherever the two names stand together in the Old Testament as a compound name of God, they are rendered "Sovereign Lord."

Because for most readers today the phrase "the Lord of hosts" and "God of hosts" have little meaning, this version renders them "the Lord Almighty" and "God Almighty." These renderings convey the sense of the Hebrew, namely, "he who is sovereign over all the 'hosts' (powers) in heaven and on earth, especially over the 'hosts' (armies) of Israel." For readers unacquainted with Hebrew this does not make clear the distinction between Sabaoth ("hosts" or "Almighty") and Shaddai (which can also be translated "Almighty"), but the latter occurs infrequently and is always footnoted. When Adonai and YHWH Sabaoth occur together, they are rendered "the Lord, the Lord Almighty."


Futhermore if the Scriptures say there is only one Name given unto men by which they must be saved in Acts 4:12 then there is only one Name. I am not apart of The sacred name movement because the scriptures never said his Name was sacred. The Scripture boldly say in John 14:14 that any thing you ask in his Name shall be given. You have to figure out for yourself which Name gives you the most responds. I challenge you this day August 17th 2005 to pray in the Name of Yahoshua and see(Psalms 34:8). If you feel that Jesus, Logos, LORD, God and so on does more for you, I wont stop you.
I expressed in other replies that if we all would just stop for a second and not fight. We can see it clearly in the Scriptures that everything is in the Name and there isnt anywhere in the scriptures that say "many Names" which would be plural. You should ask a Kabbalist how powerful the Name is. They will tell you the name is so powerful that they mispronounce it on purpose to balance the amount of power given. Believe me I was crazy for Jesus for more then 20 years, but there comes a time in your life when you need the Truth. The Holy Spirit showed up in a mighty way. John 16:13 says Howbeit when he comes, the spirit of Truth and he will lead you and guide you into all Truth. I received that whole heartedly.

If I have offened your belief then I am sorry. I donot want to make enemies on this site. However Yahoshua wasnt excepted in his day either. The prophets werent excepted and more then 80% of the Scriptures was written by convicts rejected by the powers that be.

[Sparko]

Why do you call me names.

Dang, there goes another irony meter! :glare:

:irony:

[technomage]

I dont think you are showing fourth the Love of YHWH.

That's allright--I don't think you're showing forth the truth you claim is found in the Scriptures. You refuse to answer questions or serious challenges to your beliefs, and only respond with more reptetitions of what has already been disproven by the very questions and statements that you have ignored.

[sonofyah]

That's allright--I don't think you're showing forth the truth you claim is found in the Scriptures. You refuse to answer questions or serious challenges to your beliefs, and only respond with more reptetitions of what has already been disproven by the very questions and statements that you have ignored.

Its impossible for the Scriptures to lie. They must live within you. This is not a battle of what you can approve or disprove of. Just ask yourself or someone you look up too or better yet ask the Holy Spirit what is that one Name the Scriptures are talking about. Yes, I give the same scriptures because if you read them under the direction of the Holy Spirit he won't fail you. If you believe his name is jesus knowing the english language is only 500 years old, great. Leave me alone. If you don't want to get out of the box, great. Leave me alone. If you don't know the Holy Spirit and you know the Holy Ghost, great. If you want to celebrate pagan holidays, great. But if you want to blasphemy, it will not be forgiven in this life or the next.

[technomage]

Its impossible for the Scriptures to lie.

It is not impossible for human beings to lie.

Therefore I ask you one more time: the New Testament was written in Greek, and the name of the Son of God was written Iesous--Jesus is the English translation. For you to state that Iesous was inaccurate is for you to deny the authority of Scripture. Do you state that people cannot be saved in the name of Iesous or Jesus?

Directly answer my question without obfuscation, Abram. This evasion of honest questions is annoying.

[Sparko]

If you just want to be left alone, sonofyah, you probably shouldn't be posting threads on a public forum website like Theologyweb which is dedicated to debating. If you just want to publish your diatribes with no one questioning you, perhaps you should get your own website. I suggest www.SonofyahSoapbox.com (http://www.SonofyahSoapbox.com) - you can register the name at places like www.powerpipe.com (http://www.powerpipe.com) for as little as $7.95 per year.

But as long as you post your nonsense on sites like Theologyweb, you will get responses and people debating with you. And so far, you have not answered any of our objections. We have posted verse after verse showing you how God, Jesus, and other people in the bible go by different names and it is not a problem.

The apostles spoke aramaic and hebrew in everyday life and they called the Messiah by his Aramiac name. But when those same apostles and disciples WROTE about the Messiah they used the literary language of the day, Greek, and had no problem with writing the Messiah's name as Iesous in the scripture (using Greek letters of course) - Paul was named Saul and had no problem with people calling him Saul or Paul. God has dozens of names listed in the Old Testament besides YHWH. I gave you scriptural evidence of all that and more and you choose to ignore it.

All you do is ignore any arguments against your position, then claim no one has refuted you and for people to just leave you alone and then post the same old stuff again.

:noevil: = sonofyah

[technomage]

The apostles spoke aramaic and hebrew in everyday life and they called the Messiah by his Aramiac name.

Um, as a POI, the Apostles probably did not speak Hebrew in everyday life. By the 1st century, what we call Hebrew had just about dropped out of common usage for the "unlearned"--hence the question of how the apostles as "unlearned men" could speak with such authority and knowledge.

However, they probably did speak Greek as well as Aramaic--Greek was the "lingua franca" for the Eastern part of the Empire at that time, and Judea was heavily Hellenized after Alexander came through.

[Sparko]

Um, as a POI, the Apostles probably did not speak Hebrew in everyday life. By the 1st century, what we call Hebrew had just about dropped out of common usage for the "unlearned"--hence the question of how the apostles as "unlearned men" could speak with such authority and knowledge.

However, they probably did speak Greek as well as Aramaic--Greek was the "lingua franca" for the Eastern part of the Empire at that time, and Judea was heavily Hellenized after Alexander came through.

Yeah I believe I read that Aramaic was the common tongue back then, with Hebrew used for mostly reading and studying the Torah (as well as Greek in the Septuagent). Greek and even some Latin was spoken in the area I think. So there were a lot of languages being used in that area at the time and people most likely answered to various versions of their names in different languages.

[Yamyam]

If you just want to be left alone, sonofyah, you probably shouldn't be posting threads on a public forum website like Theologyweb which is dedicated to debating. If you just want to publish your diatribes with no one questioning you, perhaps you should get your own website. I suggest www.SonofyahSoapbox.com (http://www.SonofyahSoapbox.com) - you can register the name at places like www.powerpipe.com (http://www.powerpipe.com) for as little as $7.95 per year.

But as long as you post your nonsense on sites like Theologyweb, you will get responses and people debating with you. And so far, you have not answered any of our objections. We have posted verse after verse showing you how God, Jesus, and other people in the bible go by different names and it is not a problem.

The apostles spoke aramaic and hebrew in everyday life and they called the Messiah by his Aramiac name. But when those same apostles and disciples WROTE about the Messiah they used the literary language of the day, Greek, and had no problem with writing the Messiah's name as Iesous in the scripture (using Greek letters of course) - Paul was named Saul and had no problem with people calling him Saul or Paul. God has dozens of names listed in the Old Testament besides YHWH. I gave you scriptural evidence of all that and more and you choose to ignore it.

All you do is ignore any arguments against your position, then claim no one has refuted you and for people to just leave you alone and then post the same old stuff again.

:noevil: = sonofyah

Thank you for standing up (too). We can always hope it helps.

[sonofyah]

It is not impossible for human beings to lie.

Therefore I ask you one more time: the New Testament was written in Greek, and the name of the Son of God was written Iesous--Jesus is the English translation. For you to state that Iesous was inaccurate is for you to deny the authority of Scripture. Do you state that people cannot be saved in the name of Iesous or Jesus?

Directly answer my question without obfuscation, Abram. This evasion of honest questions is annoying.

Alright, fine, This is a transliteration. A transliteration is letter for letter from one language to the next. Also a transliteration will never lose its P-R-O-N-O-U-N-C-I-A-T-I-O-N. You are picking a transliteration in the Greek and reading it as if it were English. The Greek "I" doesnot make the"i" sound, it makes the "Y" sound. Now the "e" is not debatable either. Since vowels were only inserted for pronounciation what we have here is a full mistransliteration. The reason why, is the Son gets his Name from the father whom Name is YHWH, pronounced Yahweh. The highest form of praise in Hebrew is HalleluYah meaning "praise YHWH. Notice how the YH is pronunced YAH in this word that has been transliterated into every language NEVER losing its original pronounciation. English will say its spelled HalleluJah. Now do you see how the "J" is making the "Y" sound in the english. Now its begining to unfold. There is actually an exception to the rule. Only a Name with the Heavenly Fathers Name in it can be highly exalted or considered of the highest respect. No one Jewish named there kid jesus. See Below:

ZechariYah
ObidiYah
NeimiYah
YeshaYahu(Isaiah)
JeremiYah
Yahoshua
Matiyahu(Matthew)
Yaacob
Yahudah(Jude)

These are just some examples of people that have the shorten form of the Heavenly Fathers Name in there Name. You donot see the a consistancy of English or Greek names in the original text. Understanding those Names can only be traced back to England and not the Children of Yisrael. Ieosous is Greek, yes you are right but like the Preface of the NIV Bible I showed you guys earlier says that they deliberately changed the Name because they felt the "" Sacred Name was too Holy to speak. See below:

Jesus is derived from the Latin Iesus, which in turn comes from the Greek Iesous (Ιησους). The Greek form is a transliteration of the Aramaic name Yeshua (ישוע), a short form of Hebrew Yehoshua (יהושע), which means the Lord is salvation, literally Yahweh/Jehovah saves. The English form of Yehoshua is Joshua. (Other common English transliterations from the Aramaic Yeshua (ישוע) include Jeshua and Yahshua.)

I did not write this. This comes from the dictionary. Why do we need to go through all of this just to say his Name is "Yahoshua". This is the most confusing etymology of a name I have ever seen. The Name of the Only begotten Son is the Only Name in the Scriptures that have to go through so much to prove the Jesus, Iesous, Yeshua, and Iesus is even half-way close to Yahoshua.

Even if you compare Iesus(Latin) and Jesus(Middle English). This is clearly a mistransliteration because the Latin "I" donot make the English "J" sound. Remember, it cannot lose its pronunciation. To take letters from one mistransliteration and take to a Greek transliteration means more damage control. If you cant make since of the first how can you make since of the second. Make no mistake about it Iesous is a Greek name. But to try and transliterate Iesous from Yahoshua is tricky. First, where is the "Yah" in "Ies".
Ies makes the "Yes" with a long e. If you can figure that out, fine. Now I want you to get the "sh" sound from the "s" in the Greek. The reason why I ask is because there is NO "sh" sound in the Greek language.

What is happening here is a mistransliteration made by man. There isnt a Greek scholar anywhere that will agree with this transliteration with a straight face. If so, tell him or her to pronounce Iesous for you. My closing statement is if you can transliterate through so many languages and have two names in the transliteration that donot have anything to do with each other you have a mistake also known as a mistransliteration. See Below:

Yahoshua
Jesus

I-D-E-N-T-I-T-Y T-H-E-F-T

Im going to show you some transliterations from the New Covenant that NEVER lose its pronounciation. See Below:


Moses [3475] Moseus
Michael [3413] Michael
Enoch [1802] Enoch
Adam, [76] Adam

The Name, the Strong's Concordanace number and the Greek. The reason why I pick these Names is because they appear in Old and the New Covenant. And if the New is written in Greek then why is the pronounciation of these Names the same as the original, but when it comes to the Name thats above every Name. The Name we need to worship and praise at all times we lose it somewhere inbetween three different dialect's. You must challenge every gray area and it doesn't matter if your talking to a scholar or a novice. The same passion you have when your responding to me you should challenge your professors and Bishops with. We would not have Deut. 4:2 "You must not add or subtract from this word I have given you"....if he didn't know it was going to happen.

[sonofyah]

If you just want to be left alone, sonofyah, you probably shouldn't be posting threads on a public forum website like Theologyweb which is dedicated to debating. If you just want to publish your diatribes with no one questioning you, perhaps you should get your own website. I suggest www.SonofyahSoapbox.com (http://www.SonofyahSoapbox.com) - you can register the name at places like www.powerpipe.com (http://www.powerpipe.com) for as little as $7.95 per year.

But as long as you post your nonsense on sites like Theologyweb, you will get responses and people debating with you. And so far, you have not answered any of our objections. We have posted verse after verse showing you how God, Jesus, and other people in the bible go by different names and it is not a problem.

The apostles spoke aramaic and hebrew in everyday life and they called the Messiah by his Aramiac name. But when those same apostles and disciples WROTE about the Messiah they used the literary language of the day, Greek, and had no problem with writing the Messiah's name as Iesous in the scripture (using Greek letters of course) - Paul was named Saul and had no problem with people calling him Saul or Paul. God has dozens of names listed in the Old Testament besides YHWH. I gave you scriptural evidence of all that and more and you choose to ignore it.

All you do is ignore any arguments against your position, then claim no one has refuted you and for people to just leave you alone and then post the same old stuff again.

:noevil: = sonofyah

You are so funny. I told you there is a difference between a common name and a proper name.

[sonofyah]

Thank you for standing up (too). We can always hope it helps.




Alright, fine, This is a transliteration. A transliteration is letter for letter from one language to the next. Also a transliteration will never lose its P-R-O-N-O-U-N-C-I-A-T-I-O-N. You are picking a transliteration in the Greek and reading it as if it were English. The Greek "I" doesnot make the"i" sound, it makes the "Y" sound. Now the "e" is not debatable either. Since vowels were only inserted for pronounciation what we have here is a full mistransliteration. The reason why, is the Son gets his Name from the father whom Name is YHWH, pronounced Yahweh. The highest form of praise in Hebrew is HalleluYah meaning "praise YHWH. Notice how the YH is pronunced YAH in this word that has been transliterated into every language NEVER losing its original pronounciation. English will say its spelled HalleluJah. Now do you see how the "J" is making the "Y" sound in the english. Now its begining to unfold. There is actually an exception to the rule. Only a Name with the Heavenly Fathers Name in it can be highly exalted or considered of the highest respect. No one Jewish named there kid jesus. See Below:

ZechariYah
ObidiYah
NeimiYah
YeshaYahu(Isaiah)
JeremiYah
Yahoshua
Matiyahu(Matthew)
Yaacob
Yahudah(Jude)

These are just some examples of people that have the shorten form of the Heavenly Fathers Name in there Name. You donot see the a consistancy of English or Greek names in the original text. Understanding those Names can only be traced back to England and not the Children of Yisrael. Ieosous is Greek, yes you are right but like the Preface of the NIV Bible I showed you guys earlier says that they deliberately changed the Name because they felt the "" Sacred Name was too Holy to speak. See below:

Jesus is derived from the Latin Iesus, which in turn comes from the Greek Iesous (Ιησους). The Greek form is a transliteration of the Aramaic name Yeshua (ישוע), a short form of Hebrew Yehoshua (יהושע), which means the Lord is salvation, literally Yahweh/Jehovah saves. The English form of Yehoshua is Joshua. (Other common English transliterations from the Aramaic Yeshua (ישוע) include Jeshua and Yahshua.)

I did not write this. This comes from the dictionary. Why do we need to go through all of this just to say his Name is "Yahoshua". This is the most confusing etymology of a name I have ever seen. The Name of the Only begotten Son is the Only Name in the Scriptures that have to go through so much to prove the Jesus, Iesous, Yeshua, and Iesus is even half-way close to Yahoshua.

Even if you compare Iesus(Latin) and Jesus(Middle English). This is clearly a mistransliteration because the Latin "I" donot make the English "J" sound. Remember, it cannot lose its pronunciation. To take letters from one mistransliteration and take to a Greek transliteration means more damage control. If you cant make since of the first how can you make since of the second. Make no mistake about it Iesous is a Greek name. But to try and transliterate Iesous from Yahoshua is tricky. First, where is the "Yah" in "Ies".
Ies makes the "Yes" with a long e. If you can figure that out, fine. Now I want you to get the "sh" sound from the "s" in the Greek. The reason why I ask is because there is NO "sh" sound in the Greek language.

What is happening here is a mistransliteration made by man. There isnt a Greek scholar anywhere that will agree with this transliteration with a straight face. If so, tell him or her to pronounce Iesous for you. My closing statement is if you can transliterate through so many languages and have two names in the transliteration that donot have anything to do with each other you have a mistake also known as a mistransliteration. See Below:

Yahoshua
Jesus

I-D-E-N-T-I-T-Y T-H-E-F-T

Im going to show you some transliterations from the New Covenant that NEVER lose its pronounciation. See Below:


Moses [3475] Moseus
Michael [3413] Michael
Enoch [1802] Enoch
Adam, [76] Adam

The Name, the Strong's Concordanace number and the Greek. The reason why I pick these Names is because they appear in Old and the New Covenant. And if the New is written in Greek then why is the pronounciation of these Names the same as the original, but when it comes to the Name thats above every Name. The Name we need to worship and praise at all times we lose it somewhere inbetween three different dialect's. You must challenge every gray area and it doesn't matter if your talking to a scholar or a novice. The same passion you have when your responding to me you should challenge your professors and Bishops with. We would not have Deut. 4:2 "You must not add or subtract from this word I have given you"....if he didn't know it was going to happen.

[sonofyah]

Yeah I believe I read that Aramaic was the common tongue back then, with Hebrew used for mostly reading and studying the Torah (as well as Greek in the Septuagent). Greek and even some Latin was spoken in the area I think. So there were a lot of languages being used in that area at the time and people most likely answered to various versions of their names in different languages.




Alright, fine, This is a transliteration. A transliteration is letter for letter from one language to the next. Also a transliteration will never lose its P-R-O-N-O-U-N-C-I-A-T-I-O-N. You are picking a transliteration in the Greek and reading it as if it were English. The Greek "I" doesnot make the"i" sound, it makes the "Y" sound. Now the "e" is not debatable either. Since vowels were only inserted for pronounciation what we have here is a full mistransliteration. The reason why, is the Son gets his Name from the father whom Name is YHWH, pronounced Yahweh. The highest form of praise in Hebrew is HalleluYah meaning "praise YHWH. Notice how the YH is pronunced YAH in this word that has been transliterated into every language NEVER losing its original pronounciation. English will say its spelled HalleluJah. Now do you see how the "J" is making the "Y" sound in the english. Now its begining to unfold. There is actually an exception to the rule. Only a Name with the Heavenly Fathers Name in it can be highly exalted or considered of the highest respect. No one Jewish named there kid jesus. See Below:

ZechariYah
ObidiYah
NeimiYah
YeshaYahu(Isaiah)
JeremiYah
Yahoshua
Matiyahu(Matthew)
Yaacob
Yahudah(Jude)

These are just some examples of people that have the shorten form of the Heavenly Fathers Name in there Name. You donot see the a consistancy of English or Greek names in the original text. Understanding those Names can only be traced back to England and not the Children of Yisrael. Ieosous is Greek, yes you are right but like the Preface of the NIV Bible I showed you guys earlier says that they deliberately changed the Name because they felt the "" Sacred Name was too Holy to speak. See below:

Jesus is derived from the Latin Iesus, which in turn comes from the Greek Iesous (Ιησους). The Greek form is a transliteration of the Aramaic name Yeshua (ישוע), a short form of Hebrew Yehoshua (יהושע), which means the Lord is salvation, literally Yahweh/Jehovah saves. The English form of Yehoshua is Joshua. (Other common English transliterations from the Aramaic Yeshua (ישוע) include Jeshua and Yahshua.)

I did not write this. This comes from the dictionary. Why do we need to go through all of this just to say his Name is "Yahoshua". This is the most confusing etymology of a name I have ever seen. The Name of the Only begotten Son is the Only Name in the Scriptures that have to go through so much to prove the Jesus, Iesous, Yeshua, and Iesus is even half-way close to Yahoshua.

Even if you compare Iesus(Latin) and Jesus(Middle English). This is clearly a mistransliteration because the Latin "I" donot make the English "J" sound. Remember, it cannot lose its pronunciation. To take letters from one mistransliteration and take to a Greek transliteration means more damage control. If you cant make since of the first how can you make since of the second. Make no mistake about it Iesous is a Greek name. But to try and transliterate Iesous from Yahoshua is tricky. First, where is the "Yah" in "Ies".
Ies makes the "Yes" with a long e. If you can figure that out, fine. Now I want you to get the "sh" sound from the "s" in the Greek. The reason why I ask is because there is NO "sh" sound in the Greek language.

What is happening here is a mistransliteration made by man. There isnt a Greek scholar anywhere that will agree with this transliteration with a straight face. If so, tell him or her to pronounce Iesous for you. My closing statement is if you can transliterate through so many languages and have two names in the transliteration that donot have anything to do with each other you have a mistake also known as a mistransliteration. See Below:

Yahoshua
Jesus

I-D-E-N-T-I-T-Y T-H-E-F-T

Im going to show you some transliterations from the New Covenant that NEVER lose its pronounciation. See Below:


Moses [3475] Moseus
Michael [3413] Michael
Enoch [1802] Enoch
Adam, [76] Adam

The Name, the Strong's Concordanace number and the Greek. The reason why I pick these Names is because they appear in Old and the New Covenant. And if the New is written in Greek then why is the pronounciation of these Names the same as the original, but when it comes to the Name thats above every Name. The Name we need to worship and praise at all times we lose it somewhere inbetween three different dialect's. You must challenge every gray area and it doesn't matter if your talking to a scholar or a novice. The same passion you have when your responding to me you should challenge your professors and Bishops with. We would not have Deut. 4:2 "You must not add or subtract from this word I have given you"....if he didn't know it was going to happen.

[technomage]

Alright, fine, This is a transliteration. A transliteration is letter for letter from one language to the next. Also a transliteration will never lose its P-R-O-N-O-U-N-C-I-A-T-I-O-N.

That last statement is incorrect: transliteration results in the closest sound, but not necessarily an identical sound. Identical sounds are not always possible in languages: for an example, please see Translation of Proper Names in Cross-Language Applications (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A//www.clsp.jhu.edu/people/pvirga/papers/p365-virga.pdf&ei=dLUDQ4TBKIqIsgGIwtnKDg). (That page will require the use of Adobe Acrobat Reader, or an equivalent.)

You are picking a transliteration in the Greek and reading it as if it were English.

Quite incorrect: I am lookin at the Greek translation as pronounced "Ye-sous." The progression from Greek Iesous to English Jesus has been well documented.

Remember, it cannot lose its pronunciation.

Under what authority do you make that statement--linguistic, or religious. I have already linked to a document that illustrates your error linguistically.

Nonetheless, you have still not answered my question--Are people saved in the name Jesus or not?

[Sparko]

sonofyah you can repeat your same post till Jesus comes back but it is still WRONG (that is spelled with a silent W by the way)

Like Cup said the greek Iesous is not pronounced "Yahoshua" Not even CLOSE. So your whole argument goes down the tubes. Even if his disciples called him "Yahoshua" when speaking to him (there is no evidence of this by the way) they still chose to write his name Iesous in the Greek when they wrote the scripture. And Iesous is pronouced Yesus or Yesous. Which is a lot closer in pronunciation to Jesus than to Yahoshua. So if they did try to write the greek name so that it pronounced the same as his real name when spoken then he real name is Yesous and not Yohoshua.

And again, you dont even know that YH is pronounced YAH. That is just a guess since the Hebrews never wrote down the vowel sounds. We don't even know what vowel sounds WERE in ancient Hebrew. We assume they are similar to modern Hebrew or even English, but who knows? It could have been pronounced Yih, Yoh, Yah, or Yeh and that is just using english vowel sounds.

Like I said, if the proper pronunciation is essential for salvation and connecting with God, then you better dust off your fire-proof PJ's cuz you might need them, you have no idea whether your pronunciation is right or not. You could be off just as far as you claim we are. If God is really concerned about that, you have just as much to worry about as we do.

[Yamyam]

Alright, fine, This is a transliteration. A transliteration is letter for letter from one language to the next. Also a transliteration will never lose its P-R-O-N-O-U-N-C-I-A-T-I-O-N. You are picking a transliteration in the Greek and reading it as if it were English. The Greek "I" doesnot make the"i" sound, it makes the "Y" sound. Now the "e" is not debatable either. Since vowels were only inserted for pronounciation what we have here is a full mistransliteration. The reason why, is the Son gets his Name from the father whom Name is YHWH, pronounced Yahweh. The highest form of praise in Hebrew is HalleluYah meaning "praise YHWH. Notice how the YH is pronunced YAH in this word that has been transliterated into every language NEVER losing its original pronounciation. English will say its spelled HalleluJah. Now do you see how the "J" is making the "Y" sound in the english. Now its begining to unfold. There is actually an exception to the rule. Only a Name with the Heavenly Fathers Name in it can be highly exalted or considered of the highest respect. No one Jewish named there kid jesus. See Below:

ZechariYah
ObidiYah
NeimiYah
YeshaYahu(Isaiah)
JeremiYah
Yahoshua
Matiyahu(Matthew)
Yaacob
Yahudah(Jude)

These are just some examples of people that have the shorten form of the Heavenly Fathers Name in there Name. You donot see the a consistancy of English or Greek names in the original text. Understanding those Names can only be traced back to England and not the Children of Yisrael. Ieosous is Greek, yes you are right but like the Preface of the NIV Bible I showed you guys earlier says that they deliberately changed the Name because they felt the "" Sacred Name was too Holy to speak. See below:

Jesus is derived from the Latin Iesus, which in turn comes from the Greek Iesous (Ιησους). The Greek form is a transliteration of the Aramaic name Yeshua (ישוע), a short form of Hebrew Yehoshua (יהושע), which means the Lord is salvation, literally Yahweh/Jehovah saves. The English form of Yehoshua is Joshua. (Other common English transliterations from the Aramaic Yeshua (ישוע) include Jeshua and Yahshua.)

I did not write this. This comes from the dictionary. Why do we need to go through all of this just to say his Name is "Yahoshua". This is the most confusing etymology of a name I have ever seen. The Name of the Only begotten Son is the Only Name in the Scriptures that have to go through so much to prove the Jesus, Iesous, Yeshua, and Iesus is even half-way close to Yahoshua.

Even if you compare Iesus(Latin) and Jesus(Middle English). This is clearly a mistransliteration because the Latin "I" donot make the English "J" sound. Remember, it cannot lose its pronunciation. To take letters from one mistransliteration and take to a Greek transliteration means more damage control. If you cant make since of the first how can you make since of the second. Make no mistake about it Iesous is a Greek name. But to try and transliterate Iesous from Yahoshua is tricky. First, where is the "Yah" in "Ies".
Ies makes the "Yes" with a long e. If you can figure that out, fine. Now I want you to get the "sh" sound from the "s" in the Greek. The reason why I ask is because there is NO "sh" sound in the Greek language.

What is happening here is a mistransliteration made by man. There isnt a Greek scholar anywhere that will agree with this transliteration with a straight face. If so, tell him or her to pronounce Iesous for you. My closing statement is if you can transliterate through so many languages and have two names in the transliteration that donot have anything to do with each other you have a mistake also known as a mistransliteration. See Below:

Yahoshua
Jesus

I-D-E-N-T-I-T-Y T-H-E-F-T

Im going to show you some transliterations from the New Covenant that NEVER lose its pronounciation. See Below:


Moses [3475] Moseus
Michael [3413] Michael
Enoch [1802] Enoch
Adam, [76] Adam

The Name, the Strong's Concordanace number and the Greek. The reason why I pick these Names is because they appear in Old and the New Covenant. And if the New is written in Greek then why is the pronounciation of these Names the same as the original, but when it comes to the Name thats above every Name. The Name we need to worship and praise at all times we lose it somewhere inbetween three different dialect's. You must challenge every gray area and it doesn't matter if your talking to a scholar or a novice. The same passion you have when your responding to me you should challenge your professors and Bishops with. We would not have Deut. 4:2 "You must not add or subtract from this word I have given you"....if he didn't know it was going to happen.

Yeah I got that, but that's not what I mean. We wanted you to show why the posted bible passages/sentences in this thread by other posters don't proof that it's not so important how you call the Lord.

[sonofyah]

Yeah I got that, but that's not what I mean. We wanted you to show why the posted bible passages/sentences in this thread by other posters don't proof that it's not so important how you call the Lord.

proof that it's not so important how you call the Lord.
This very statement cannot be scripturally proven. For example David always talk about how wonderful the Name is in the Book of Psalms. John 14:14 says that anything you ask in my Name shall be given. Now lets look at this for a second. Even though we know the Greek Scholar's attempted to transliterate the Name having full knowledge of the True Name. They are apart of the conspiring movement on "The name is not important" people or "It doesnt really matter what you call him" people. The reason why, is when people are presented with Truth and there understanding of what they thought was truth becomes shaky ground they start to make those statements like:

Its not important what you call him.
He hears me if I call him a different name.
You are putting too much emphasis on the Name.
We speak english so we call him jesus.
The new testament was written in greek so we call him Iesous.

I submitted to the True Name Yahoshua because the first time I said it I experienced a feeling I never felt before, like the missing link in my walk is here now. Transliterations of man donot give me that refuge I have found in Yahoshua.

[sonofyah]

sonofyah you can repeat your same post till Jesus comes back but it is still WRONG (that is spelled with a silent W by the way)

Like Cup said the greek Iesous is not pronounced "Yahoshua" Not even CLOSE.

Jesus is derived from the Latin Iesus, which in turn comes from the Greek Iesous (Ιησους). The Greek form is a transliteration of the Aramaic name Yeshua (ישוע), a short form of Hebrew Yehoshua (יהושע), which means the Lord is salvation, literally Yahweh/Jehovah saves. The English form of Yehoshua is Joshua. (Other common English transliterations from the Aramaic Yeshua (ישוע) include Jeshua and Yahshua.)

Come on Sparko the transliteration has a "source" which started with Yahoshua.

So your whole argument goes down the tubes. Even if his disciples called him "Yahoshua" when speaking to him (there is no evidence of this by the way) they still chose to write his name Iesous in the Greek when they wrote the scripture. And Iesous is pronouced Yesus or Yesous. Which is a lot closer in pronunciation to Jesus than to Yahoshua


Stop Sparko. You know what, Ingnorance comes from not Knowing.
Even if you compare Iesus(Latin) and Jesus(Middle English). This is clearly a mistransliteration because the Latin "I" donot make the English "J" sound. Remember, it cannot lose its pronunciation. To take letters from one mistransliteration and take to a Greek transliteration means more damage control. If you cant make since of the first how can you make since of the second. Make no mistake about it Iesous is a Greek name. But to try and transliterate Iesous from Yahoshua is tricky. First, where is the "Yah" in "Ies".
Ies makes the "Yes" with a long e. If you can figure that out, fine. Now I want you to get the "sh" sound from the "s" in the Greek. The reason why I ask is because there is NO "sh" sound in the Greek language. Do you even read what I write.

Like Cup said

Sparko, think for yourself.


So your whole argument goes down the tubes. Even if his disciples called him "Yahoshua" when speaking to him (there is no evidence of this by the way) they still chose to write his name Iesous in the Greek when they wrote the scripture. And Iesous is pronouced Yesus or Yesous. Which is a lot closer in pronunciation to Jesus than to Yahoshua. So if they did try to write the greek name so that it pronounced the same as his real name when spoken then he real name is Yesous and not Yohoshua.

And again, you dont even know that YH is pronounced YAH. That is just a guess since the Hebrews never wrote down the vowel sounds. We don't even know what vowel sounds WERE in ancient Hebrew. We assume they are similar to modern Hebrew or even English, but who knows? It could have been pronounced Yih, Yoh, Yah, or Yeh and that is just using english vowel sounds.

Like I said, if the proper pronunciation is essential for salvation and connecting with God, then you better dust off your fire-proof PJ's cuz you might need them, you have no idea whether your pronunciation is right or not. You could be off just as far as you claim we are. If God is really concerned about that, you have just as much to worry about as we do.


Rev.3:8 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the assemblies.

1 John 4:6 We are of YHWH: he that knoweth YHWH heareth us; he that is not of YHWH heareth not us. Hereby we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

I HEAR FROM YHWH and I bet you hear from him too. But the spirit of confusion sets in and convince you to make statements like this:


you dont even know that YH is pronounced YAH

Again, you are not reading Sparko:

The highest form of praise in Hebrew is HalleluYah meaning "praise YHWH. Notice how the YH is pronunced YAH in this word that has been transliterated into every language NEVER losing its original pronounciation. English will say its spelled HalleluJah. Now do you see how the "J" is making the "Y" sound in the english. Now its begining to unfold. There is actually an exception to the rule. Only a Name with the Heavenly Fathers Name in it can be highly exalted or considered of the highest respect.

[Sparko]

well how can you argue with insane, guys?

sonofyah is clearly closeminded and not even reading what we are trying to tell him.

Let me try once more.

The scripture writers were not in on some conspiracy of the devil to change the Messiah's name, sonofyah. The scripture writers were the people who actually KNEW Jesus or were close followers of those who did know him (in the case of Mark for example who was a disciple of Peter) - They KNEW how to say his name and wrote it as Iesous in Greek, and so we are faced with two possibilities:

1. The Messiah's name was really pronounced YESOUS (IESOUS in Greek) and the gospel writers wrote the transliteration in such a way to preserve the pronunciation. In other words a phonetic spelling.

2. They just wrote IESOUS as the closest Greek equivalent of the name of the Messiah, like writing Johann instead John if you were writing in German about me.

Now lets explore the results of those two possibilities:

If #1 is true, then "Yehoshua" is not how the Messiah pronounced his name, meaning you are in trouble if you are right and you must pronounce his name correctly or be damed.

If #2 is right, then his name might have really been pronounced "Yehoshua" but they felt no problem with writing his name in Greek as IESOUS (which is NOT pronounced "Yehoshua" but "Yesous") - Therefore if #2 is true, you are proven wrong in your claim that we must use the correct pronunciation or be damned.

Either way YOU STILL LOSE.

Get it?

If #1 is true, you are damned because your pronunciation is way further off the mark than "Jesus" is. The correct pronunciation is "Yesous".

If #2 is right, then you are still wrong and wasting your time by claiming we need to pronounce the Messiah's name "Yehoshua"

There is NO possibility that the writers of the Gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) were involved in some conspiracy to change his name. Nor of anyone who copied their manuscripts. Why?

Because:

1. We have way too many copies and they all agree. If someone was to try to change the name of the holy Messiah, we would have evidence.

2. God promised to preserve his word. What kind of God would allow the devil to change his name in his own book and leave no evidence of the real name in any of the manuscripts?

3. If the Name is changed in the scriptures, then how can you trust ANYTHING in the bible? Any part of it could have been changed or deleted by the Devil. All those verses about using his Name could also be from the devil. he could have removed some vital prayer you had to say before you could be saved, any number of things.

[semmie]

1. We have way too many copies and they all agree. If someone was to try to change the name of the holy Messiah, we would have evidence.

2. God promised to preserve his word. What kind of God would allow the devil to change his name in his own book and leave no evidence of the real name in any of the manuscripts?

3. If the Name is changed in the scriptures, then how can you trust ANYTHING in the bible? Any part of it could have been changed or deleted by the Devil. All those verses about using his Name could also be from the devil. he could have removed some vital prayer you had to say before you could be saved, any number of things.
:yes:

this is basically what it boils down to. sonofyah...please respond to each of these points specifically.

[sonofyah]

:yes:

this is basically what it boils down to. sonofyah...please respond to each of these points specifically.

1. We have way too many copies and they all agree. If someone was to try to change the name of the holy Messiah, we would have evidence.

Semmie, I would love to say this is a perfect world but it is not. We are made in the image of YHWH but his ways are not our ways(Duet 32:4). Man have been trying to prove every event that happened in the Bible not knowing its a Spiritual Instruction manual. It helps you throughout your life to acheive salvation. Yes, there are other books that were written but really have nothing to do with salvation. The evidence is right there in your face and you say this couldnt be so. But what is evident is that the people of this world have a choice to make. YHWH wants us to chose him but man chooses to try to break down the deap things of Elohim by coming up with Theorys of Evolution and Big Bang Theorys. These scientific theory's are not 100% but they sound good. BIBLE

Basic
Instructions
Before
Leaving
Earth

This is not scriptural but it sounds good. We get away from being Set-Apart in the presents of YHWH and try to prove that he exist. Solomon prayed for Wisdom but he also wanted the wisdom of the darkside. This is very dangerous. We should just cry out for revelation knowledge and understanding of the deep things of YHWH Elohim.

2. God promised to preserve his word. What kind of God would allow the devil to change his name in his own book and leave no evidence of the real name in any of the manuscripts?

Donot blame YHWH. Remember he still haven't destroyed the people who killed his only begotten son. YHWH has a plan. He gives you instruction and gives you an option. Understand that the men who killed the Messiah had a divine purpose. Because if you really look at it from another angle you would realize that if it wasnt done we wouldnt be here. He also gave man the commandment not to add or subtract from this Word. After that he gave man a choice. He didnt install the word in every humans mind so they wouldnt mess it up. No, he breathe the word into mans life and they wrote(2 Timothy 3:16). To understand what is happening you have to become Set-apart. Meaning you must allow the Spirit to lead you into Truth. Truth is a person. "The Word" is a person and last but not least "The Life is a person.
Yahoshua Hamessiach is the Way the Truth and the Life. In the begining was the Word and the Word was with YHWH and the word was YHWH. Understand know one can tamper with the SON and he will always guard his Son Yahshua. The Holy scriptures is instructions to get to the Son but without the Holy Spirit its impossible you see the Word says in John 16:13 Howbeit when he comes the Spirit of Truth and he will lead you and guide you into all truth, which is a person, which is Yahshua. So you see the Word is guarded. You have to be under the annointing to understand it because is spiritual. MAN will tell you the Name is not in the Manuscripts but the Holy Spirit wont.

3. If the Name is changed in the scriptures, then how can you trust ANYTHING in the bible? Any part of it could have been changed or deleted by the Devil. All those verses about using his Name could also be from the devil. he could have removed some vital prayer you had to say before you could be saved, any number of things.

You have to put your trust in Yahshua. You donot have that testimony anymore that you dont know the Name. You do. Now what are you going to do now. Cry out in the Name of Yahshua for his Voice and he will let you hear.
I have about seven Bibles and one of them is from South Africa and it doesnt substitute any of the Names. If you would like I will send you one I promise. Another thing I wanted to say is Man is doing such a good job at corrupting things, Satan don't have to do anything. We destroy the land, our bodies, our minds, and His Word. Understand the Word was never lost. There is a way and that way is YHWH through Yahshua under the direction of the Ruach Hacodesh.

[Yamyam]

This very statement cannot be scripturally proven. For example David always talk about how wonderful the Name is in the Book of Psalms. John 14:14 says that anything you ask in my Name shall be given. Now lets look at this for a second. Even though we know the Greek Scholar's attempted to transliterate the Name having full knowledge of the True Name. They are apart of the conspiring movement on "The name is not important" people or "It doesnt really matter what you call him" people. The reason why, is when people are presented with Truth and there understanding of what they thought was truth becomes shaky ground they start to make those statements like:

Its not important what you call him.
He hears me if I call him a different name.
You are putting too much emphasis on the Name.
We speak english so we call him jesus.
The new testament was written in greek so we call him Iesous.

I submitted to the True Name Yahoshua because the first time I said it I experienced a feeling I never felt before, like the missing link in my walk is here now. Transliterations of man donot give me that refuge I have found in Yahoshua.
You still ignore the scripture passages post here. :ahem:

[Sparko]

see Semmie? he did not answer even ONE of the points we asked him to answer. He quoted each of them, then proceeded to ignore them and just post his normal diatribe below each which had NOTHING to do with the point he quoted.

He is a TROLL. and a very poor one at that.

Basically he is just too clueless to know how to answer the points we bring up, so he ignores them and just resposts the same old stuff. Hopefully the points and scripiture we are bringing up are at least planting seeds of doubt in his thick skull and they will grow one day and he will see the truth. Other than that, we are pretty much wasting our time here and just feeding his need for attention.

[sonofyah]

see Semmie? he did not answer even ONE of the points we asked him to answer. He quoted each of them, then proceeded to ignore them and just post his normal diatribe below each which had NOTHING to do with the point he quoted.

He is a TROLL. and a very poor one at that.

Basically he is just too clueless to know how to answer the points we bring up, so he ignores them and just resposts the same old stuff. Hopefully the points and scripiture we are bringing up are at least planting seeds of doubt in his thick skull and they will grow one day and he will see the truth. Other than that, we are pretty much wasting our time here and just feeding his need for attention.

I'm sorry you feel this way.

[Sparko]

I'm sorry you feel this way.

Well you can always prove me wrong and earn an apology by actually reading and answering our posts and the verse we quoted (just like you asked for) instead of just repeating the same nonsense over and over and ignoring us.

[semmie]

see Semmie? he did not answer even ONE of the points we asked him to answer. He quoted each of them, then proceeded to ignore them and just post his normal diatribe below each which had NOTHING to do with the point he quoted.

He is a TROLL. and a very poor one at that.

Basically he is just too clueless to know how to answer the points we bring up, so he ignores them and just resposts the same old stuff. Hopefully the points and scripiture we are bringing up are at least planting seeds of doubt in his thick skull and they will grow one day and he will see the truth. Other than that, we are pretty much wasting our time here and just feeding his need for attention.
do you remember that part in the movie where samwise is saying there's no good left in smeagol? and frodo says he wants to help him, because he needs to believe that smeagol can come back. remember?

no one will respect you any less if you walk away from this discussion, sparks...and i can certainly understand what you're saying and feeling about this. you are right--he hasn't addressed the issues at hand, and when asked to respond to specific questions, he has dodged. i'm not sure if this is intentional on his part or not--i'd like to believe it's not. i'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for awhile at least, and trust that he's not intentionally skirting the issues. but again, no one (certainly not myself) is going to think less of you (alas, no one would even blame you) for ignoring this fellow.

i'm not quite finished, myself, though. i hope you don't think me less for that.

sonofyah, i'll be replying to you shortly. i, too, would greatly desire to see you address the issues raised in this thread, instead of skirting and starting new topics that have no relevance to this discussion.

blessings to you all,
~sarah

[Duder]

What is the true name of the Messiah and why isnt it spoken today?

Not sure what you are asking.

Imagine your close friend, a theoretical physicist and a gadget geek, has built the very first working time machine. He tells you that he will break it in with a trip to 1st century Palestine, and will bring you with him, plus and a scholar in ancient Aramaic.

As you step out of the machine and breathe the ancient air of the Holy Land, you tell the Aramaic scholar to ask around for Christ. He chats with a few merchants and passers-by, and then points to a man. "There He is, right there."

He is sitting with His back toward you on a wooden box in the shade of a pomegranite tree near the marketplace, idly doodling with a stick in the sand. You call out, "Jesus! Jesus!" Does He turn around to see who is calling Him?

Is that the question you're asking?

No, He doesn't. If He even speaks Greek (which is doubtful, having been raised in the Galilean backwaters), He would not be accostomed to being addressed that way. His friends probably called Him "Eashoa".


.

[Sparko]

Semmie I have no problem with you continuing to try to reach sonofyah. May God himself bless you and open the mind and heart of sonofyah and let him see the truth and your love for his soul.

[semmie]

you're a doll, sparks :smile:

[semmie]

hello sonofyah,

i want to remind you that it appears as if you are not answering the questions asked of you. i greatly appreciate the time you put into this response, but it mostly does not address the issues. i’ll try to explain a little more about each point. please know that i’m here to get through this with you...and i’m not simply going to walk away. i expect you either to honestly answer me, or to tell me we’re through. either one is acceptable.

1. We have way too many copies and they all agree. If someone was to try to change the name of the holy Messiah, we would have evidence.
Semmie, I would love to say this is a perfect world but it is not. We are made in the image of YHWH but his ways are not our ways(Duet 32:4). Man have been trying to prove every event that happened in the Bible not knowing its a Spiritual Instruction manual. It helps you throughout your life to acheive salvation. Yes, there are other books that were written but really have nothing to do with salvation. The evidence is right there in your face and you say this couldnt be so. But what is evident is that the people of this world have a choice to make. YHWH wants us to chose him but man chooses to try to break down the deap things of Elohim by coming up with Theorys of Evolution and Big Bang Theorys. These scientific theory's are not 100% but they sound good. BIBLE

Basic
Instructions
Before
Leaving
Earth

This is not scriptural but it sounds good. We get away from being Set-Apart in the presents of YHWH and try to prove that he exist. Solomon prayed for Wisdom but he also wanted the wisdom of the darkside. This is very dangerous. We should just cry out for revelation knowledge and understanding of the deep things of YHWH Elohim.

your response here has nothing to do with the point raised by sparks. the point was (as is quoted above) if someone had deliberately changed or altered the Scriptures, we would know. the problem as i see it, sonof, is that you want us to believe that Philippians 2:9 literally says “yahshua.” but it doesn’t. it literally says “iesous” in the greek, and “iesu” in the latin vulgate (if i’m mistaken there, somebody please let me know) and those both transliterate to “jesus” in the english. now, if the new testament writers wanted us to call the messiah “yahshua,” don’t you think they would’ve written that name into the greek text using hebraic or aramiac characters? but they didn’t. for whatever reason, the new testament writers used the greek letters “iesous” as a transliteration of the name “yahshua.” and if they had no problem with it, why should you or i? if you are going to argue that the new testament writers actually wrote “yahshua” in hebrew, and that the scriptures were changed to say “iesous” at some later time, then you have a heavy burden on your shoulders. this was the point: there are lots and lots of copies of the scriptures, and we have no reason to believe that they were altered. the burden of proof is yours. otherwise, if you concede that the name was not changed in the scriptures, then you have no reason to sit here and tell us we mistakenly call the messiah “jesus.”

2. God promised to preserve his word. What kind of God would allow the devil to change his name in his own book and leave no evidence of the real name in any of the manuscripts?
Donot blame YHWH. Remember he still haven't destroyed the people who killed his only begotten son. YHWH has a plan. He gives you instruction and gives you an option. Understand that the men who killed the Messiah had a divine purpose. Because if you really look at it from another angle you would realize that if it wasnt done we wouldnt be here. He also gave man the commandment not to add or subtract from this Word. After that he gave man a choice. He didnt install the word in every humans mind so they wouldnt mess it up. No, he breathe the word into mans life and they wrote(2 Timothy 3:16). To understand what is happening you have to become Set-apart. Meaning you must allow the Spirit to lead you into Truth. Truth is a person. "The Word" is a person and last but not least "The Life is a person.
Yahoshua Hamessiach is the Way the Truth and the Life. In the begining was the Word and the Word was with YHWH and the word was YHWH. Understand know one can tamper with the SON and he will always guard his Son Yahshua. The Holy scriptures is instructions to get to the Son but without the Holy Spirit its impossible you see the Word says in John 16:13 Howbeit when he comes the Spirit of Truth and he will lead you and guide you into all truth, which is a person, which is Yahshua. So you see the Word is guarded. You have to be under the annointing to understand it because is spiritual. MAN will tell you the Name is not in the Manuscripts but the Holy Spirit wont.
again, it seems to me that you didn’t really address this issue. you have three options, as i see it.

option 1
the names in the scriptures have been changed against god’s plan. if this is true, then:
* god has failed to preserve the holy scriptures.
* there is no gaurantee that any of the scriptures we have are trustworthy.
* you are again faced with the burden of proof (see my response in the previous section of this response).

option 2
the names in the scriptures have been changed, but only by god’s plan. if this is true, then:
* god is unwilling to preserve his name or his holy scriptures! lord, have mercy!
* there is again, no gaurantee that any of the scriptures are trustworthy.
* yet again, you are faced with the burden of proof (which so far, we have not seen any of).

option 3
the names in the scriptures have not been changed. if this is true, then:
* god is both willing and able to preserve his name and his holy scriptures.
* this is no reason to dismiss the trustworthiness of the holy scriptures.
* you are faced with an even greater task: to explain why you are beating against a problem that doesn’t exist. if the scriptures were not altered, there is no reason to think it is unacceptable to say “jesus.”

it’s time for you to answer us point blank, sonofyah: do you or do you not believe that the scriptures have been altered? if yes, start showing us some proof of this. if no, the entire discussion of names is pointless. but this is what it comes down to. please answer the question.

3. If the Name is changed in the scriptures, then how can you trust ANYTHING in the bible? Any part of it could have been changed or deleted by the Devil. All those verses about using his Name could also be from the devil. he could have removed some vital prayer you had to say before you could be saved, any number of things.

You have to put your trust in Yahshua. You donot have that testimony anymore that you dont know the Name. You do. Now what are you going to do now. Cry out in the Name of Yahshua for his Voice and he will let you hear.
I have about seven Bibles and one of them is from South Africa and it doesnt substitute any of the Names. If you would like I will send you one I promise. Another thing I wanted to say is Man is doing such a good job at corrupting things, Satan don't have to do anything. We destroy the land, our bodies, our minds, and His Word. Understand the Word was never lost. There is a way and that way is YHWH through Yahshua under the direction of the Ruach Hacodesh.
this is about the closest you’ve come to really answering the question asked of you. i commend you for it. however, it doesn’t work. if the holy scriptures are so weak and tampered with, then there is no need to trust that the man “yahshua” even existed—much less that he was crucified or risen from the dead. if the holy scriptures are so vulnerable to corruption, then there is no need to believe in creation or the miracles of exodus. if the holy scriptures are so pliable in the hands of the enemy, then why should i think that the old testament prophecies really have anything to do with the messiah?

alas—why should i believe in my need for a messiah at all??

you don’t seem to grasp this problem, sonofyah, and i’m trying desparately to help you understand this. but if you cannot trust that the scriptures have been handed down with accuracy in regards to the name of the father, son, and spirit, then how can you trust that they have been handed down with any accuracy at all?

this is not a matter of whether or not i trust the messiah to reveal the truth to me. this is matter of the inconsistency of your claims. if the scriptures have been mishandled, i say we do away with them altogether and try to figure things out on our own. what good are the changed, altered, words of god? they become not god’s words at all. they become unprofitable for attaining salvation and the resurrection from the dead (which is our goal). in fact, they become quite useless.


i sincerely hope you realize that i’m not trying to undermine you or tell you you’re wrong. far from it. i simply think that if you’re going to claim such a strong stance (that the messiah is bothered when we say “jesus” ), then i think you need to prove that. and i don’t see you proving it, except to say that the hebraic name would’ve been “yahshua.” okay. so what? “yahshua” is equivalent to “iesous.” again, if you are going to take this stance, then you are taking upon yourself a burden to prove that the scriptures—god’s very words of revelation and promise to his people—have been altered.

your signature line says this: If its not in the Scriptures, why do you do it and why do you say it.

so i’m asking you, sonofyah...why do you insist that “jesus” is not the messiah’s name, when the new testament freely uses this name? either you really think the new testament has been changed (altered, mishandled, what-have-you), or you are challenging the intelligence of those who translate scripture into english. which is it?

i hope to hear from you again soon.

~sarah

[sonofyah]

hello sonofyah,

i want to remind you that it appears as if you are not answering the questions asked of you. i greatly appreciate the time you put into this response, but it mostly does not address the issues. i’ll try to explain a little more about each point. please know that i’m here to get through this with you...and i’m not simply going to walk away. i expect you either to honestly answer me, or to tell me we’re through. either one is acceptable.



your response here has nothing to do with the point raised by sparks. the point was (as is quoted above) if someone had deliberately changed or altered the Scriptures, we would know. the problem as i see it, sonof, is that you want us to believe that Philippians 2:9 literally says “yahshua.” but it doesn’t. it literally says “iesous” in the greek, and “iesu” in the latin vulgate (if i’m mistaken there, somebody please let me know) and those both transliterate to “jesus” in the english. now, if the new testament writers wanted us to call the messiah “yahshua,” don’t you think they would’ve written that name into the greek text using hebraic or aramiac characters? but they didn’t. for whatever reason, the new testament writers used the greek letters “iesous” as a transliteration of the name “yahshua.” and if they had no problem with it, why should you or i? if you are going to argue that the new testament writers actually wrote “yahshua” in hebrew, and that the scriptures were changed to say “iesous” at some later time, then you have a heavy burden on your shoulders. this was the point: there are lots and lots of copies of the scriptures, and we have no reason to believe that they were altered. the burden of proof is yours. otherwise, if you concede that the name was not changed in the scriptures, then you have no reason to sit here and tell us we mistakenly call the messiah “jesus.”


again, it seems to me that you didn’t really address this issue. you have three options, as i see it.

option 1
the names in the scriptures have been changed against god’s plan. if this is true, then:
* god has failed to preserve the holy scriptures.
* there is no gaurantee that any of the scriptures we have are trustworthy.
* you are again faced with the burden of proof (see my response in the previous section of this response).

option 2
the names in the scriptures have been changed, but only by god’s plan. if this is true, then:
* god is unwilling to preserve his name or his holy scriptures! lord, have mercy!
* there is again, no gaurantee that any of the scriptures are trustworthy.
* yet again, you are faced with the burden of proof (which so far, we have not seen any of).

option 3
the names in the scriptures have not been changed. if this is true, then:
* god is both willing and able to preserve his name and his holy scriptures.
* this is no reason to dismiss the trustworthiness of the holy scriptures.
* you are faced with an even greater task: to explain why you are beating against a problem that doesn’t exist. if the scriptures were not altered, there is no reason to think it is unacceptable to say “jesus.”

it’s time for you to answer us point blank, sonofyah: do you or do you not believe that the scriptures have been altered? if yes, start showing us some proof of this. if no, the entire discussion of names is pointless. but this is what it comes down to. please answer the question.


this is about the closest you’ve come to really answering the question asked of you. i commend you for it. however, it doesn’t work. if the holy scriptures are so weak and tampered with, then there is no need to trust that the man “yahshua” even existed—much less that he was crucified or risen from the dead. if the holy scriptures are so vulnerable to corruption, then there is no need to believe in creation or the miracles of exodus. if the holy scriptures are so pliable in the hands of the enemy, then why should i think that the old testament prophecies really have anything to do with the messiah?

alas—why should i believe in my need for a messiah at all??

you don’t seem to grasp this problem, sonofyah, and i’m trying desparately to help you understand this. but if you cannot trust that the scriptures have been handed down with accuracy in regards to the name of the father, son, and spirit, then how can you trust that they have been handed down with any accuracy at all?

this is not a matter of whether or not i trust the messiah to reveal the truth to me. this is matter of the inconsistency of your claims. if the scriptures have been mishandled, i say we do away with them altogether and try to figure things out on our own. what good are the changed, altered, words of god? they become not god’s words at all. they become unprofitable for attaining salvation and the resurrection from the dead (which is our goal). in fact, they become quite useless.


i sincerely hope you realize that i’m not trying to undermine you or tell you you’re wrong. far from it. i simply think that if you’re going to claim such a strong stance (that the messiah is bothered when we say “jesus” ), then i think you need to prove that. and i don’t see you proving it, except to say that the hebraic name would’ve been “yahshua.” okay. so what? “yahshua” is equivalent to “iesous.” again, if you are going to take this stance, then you are taking upon yourself a burden to prove that the scriptures—god’s very words of revelation and promise to his people—have been altered.

your signature line says this: If its not in the Scriptures, why do you do it and why do you say it.

so i’m asking you, sonofyah...why do you insist that “jesus” is not the messiah’s name, when the new testament freely uses this name? either you really think the new testament has been changed (altered, mishandled, what-have-you), or you are challenging the intelligence of those who translate scripture into english. which is it?

i hope to hear from you again soon.

~sarah

Your challenge is deeper then you think. Something knowledge cannot heal. Only YHWH can heal you. Only YHWH can answer your questions. Only YHWH can give YOU the answers your looking for.

I have one for you. Why is it that everytime YHWH changed someones name in the scriptures he made it clear that he was changing there name's. But when it comes to his own Name YHWH he did not tell anyone to change his Name in the scriptures. If so give me a scripture. Abram was changed to Abraham, Sarai was changed to Sarah, and Yacoob was changed to Yisrael. These changes are in the scriptures and spoken of very boldly. Again where is the scripture that says the Yahoshua should be changed to Jesus, Iesus,and Ieosous and where is the scripture that says YHWH should be changed to Jehovah, Lord, LORD, God, and Adonai.

Please show me!

[semmie]

i'd like you to prove for me how we've changed YHWH's name, since you are so boldly claiming that we have.

so here's a question for you:

how do you say YHWH in english?

if you respond in english, then you are doing exactly what you are claiming we're doing: using a language other than the original to speak a name. and for the record, the words YHWH and YHWH would sound the same, in theory. so the only thing that has changed is the language we're spelling the name with. but you seem to think that's not allowed, which is odd--since you keep referring to YHWH instead of referring to YHWH.

[sonofyah]

i'd like you to prove for me how we've changed YHWH's name, since you are so boldly claiming that we have.

so here's a question for you:

how do you say YHWH in english?

if you respond in english, then you are doing exactly what you are claiming we're doing: using a language other than the original to speak a name. and for the record, the words YHWH and YHWH would sound the same, in theory. so the only thing that has changed is the language we're spelling the name with. but you seem to think that's not allowed, which is odd--since you keep referring to YHWH instead of referring to YHWH.


Yod Hey Waw Hey.....This language is written from right to left...Hayah Ashar Hayah is what he have here. Vowel sounds and punctuation was added to the text later for pronounciation and meaning. Please try not to be angry with me for giving the truth.

Matthew 10:22 you will be hated by all men for my Name's sake.

Think about it.

[sonofyah]

Semmie I have no problem with you continuing to try to reach sonofyah. May God himself bless you and open the mind and heart of sonofyah and let him see the truth and your love for his soul.


You for got to say "in the name of Yahshua, Amen"

But thanks anyway. As long as you dont blasphemy you will be find. In fact, you know better. You know deep down in your heart you have a fear for YHWH and if you dont, you still wont blasphemy. I have told you time and time again that the name jesus, iesus, ieosous, God, LORD, and Jehovah were lies. I am BOLDLY telling you nothing can happen to me in those names. I will not be cut off for blasphemy because that is not the heavenly fathers Name and thats not the Messiah's name either.

[Menachem]

These are just some examples of people that have the shorten form of the Heavenly Fathers Name in there Name. You donot see the a consistancy of English or Greek names in the original text. Understanding those Names can only be traced back to England and not the Children of Yisrael. Ieosous is Greek, yes you are right but like the Preface of the NIV Bible I showed you guys earlier says that they deliberately changed the Name because they felt the "" Sacred Name was too Holy to speak. See below:

Jesus is derived from the Latin Iesus, which in turn comes from the Greek Iesous (Ιησους). The Greek form is a transliteration of the Aramaic name Yeshua (ישוע), a short form of Hebrew Yehoshua (יהושע), which means the Lord is salvation, literally Yahweh/Jehovah saves. The English form of Yehoshua is Joshua. (Other common English transliterations from the Aramaic Yeshua (ישוע) include Jeshua and Yahshua.)

Yeshu'a is not a shortened form nor a dimunitive of Yehoshu'a. It is a completely separate name. which would be read as "Jeshua" in its anglicized form not Joshua. jesus is commonly used in teh greek to denote both the high priest Jeshua in the books of Ezra, Nechemiah and Chronicles. It is also used many times for Joshua ben Nun in the book of Joshua and int eh Torah for him as well.

the problem with Greek is that it had no equivalent name of Jeshua nor Joshua so the greeks used the same word for both.

[semmie]

Yod Hey Waw Hey.....This language is written from right to left...Hayah Ashar Hayah is what he have here. Vowel sounds and punctuation was added to the text later for pronounciation and meaning. Please try not to be angry with me for giving the truth.

Matthew 10:22 you will be hated by all men for my Name's sake.

Think about it.
you didn't answer the question (again).

the question, in case you misunderstood, was this:

how do you say YHWH in english?

please answer.

[Yamyam]

You for got to say "in the name of Yahshua, Amen"

But thanks anyway. As long as you dont blasphemy you will be find. In fact, you know better. You know deep down in your heart you have a fear for YHWH and if you dont, you still wont blasphemy. I have told you time and time again that the name jesus, iesus, ieosous, God, LORD, and Jehovah were lies. I am BOLDLY telling you nothing can happen to me in those names. I will not be cut off for blasphemy because that is not the heavenly fathers Name and thats not the Messiah's name either.

Why is Jehovah a lie then?

[Yamyam]

And SONOFYAH,

Could you pleaaaaaase answer my questions:

1. Do you think God won't "hear" you or answer your prayers when you're not using the name JHWH?
2. Why don't you answer/disproof the scripture passages posted in this thread used as a proof against your claims?

[Menachem]

you didn't answer the question (again).

the question, in case you misunderstood, was this:

how do you say YHWH in english?

please answer.


the problem with saying the Divine name is the pronunciation. The correct pronunciation is not known to anyone. It is said that when Eliyahu haNavi returns that the true pronunciation will be revealed to the re-established priesthood in the Third temple.

So to answer your question..The divine name cant be properly pronounced at this time so any of the "pronunciations" given today are in error.

[Menachem]

Why is Jehovah a lie then?


they base it imperfectly on certain vowel markings assigned to the Divine name. throughout the Hebrew bible the divine name is given the Vowel markings of either the word "Adon-ai or Elohim." for purposes of how the word should be read aloud since its true pronunciation is unknown.

[studyhound]

the problem with saying the Divine name is the pronunciation. The correct pronunciation is not known to anyone. It is said that when Eliyahu haNavi returns that the true pronunciation will be revealed to the re-established priesthood in the Third temple.

So to answer your question..The divine name cant be properly pronounced at this time so any of the "pronunciations" given today are in error.

Ya thats kinda the point I think that is trying to be made here. :blush:

[sonofyah]

Why is Jehovah a lie then?

Its a hybrid english name of a pagan god of war and ruin.

[sonofyah]

And SONOFYAH,

Could you pleaaaaaase answer my questions:

1. Do you think God won't "hear" you or answer your prayers when you're not using the name JHWH?
2. Why don't you answer/disproof the scripture passages posted in this thread used as a proof against your claims?

I dont answer some of your questions because you dont listen. If you wound humble yourself and stop looking for me to answer the way you want me to answer you will be fine. Please recognize, 1 John 4:6 should be speaking to your spirit. You will not listen so I will not answer you.

This is said with the utmost respect and love. No disrespect intended.

His Name is YHWH.

[Yamyam]

they base it imperfectly on certain vowel markings assigned to the Divine name. throughout the Hebrew bible the divine name is given the Vowel markings of either the word "Adon-ai or Elohim." for purposes of how the word should be read aloud since its true pronunciation is unknown.
But doesn't that mean Jahweh is also "a lie" then, because sonofyah says Jehovah is a lie en Jahweh isn't en he uses the name Jahweh?

[Yamyam]

I dont answer some of your questions because you dont listen. If you wound humble yourself and stop looking for me to answer the way you want me to answer you will be fine. Please recognize, 1 John 4:6 should be speaking to your spirit. You will not listen so I will not answer you.

This is said with the utmost respect and love. No disrespect intended.

His Name is YHWH.

Ah, so we should listen to your claims but you're not to ours? How hypocrite. :ahem:

[Menachem]

But doesn't that mean Jahweh is also "a lie" then, because sonofyah says Jehovah is a lie en Jahweh isn't en he uses the name Jahweh?


Now you got it, although I wouldnt say it is a lie just "Incorrect"...Mazel tov!

[semmie]

the problem with saying the Divine name is the pronunciation. The correct pronunciation is not known to anyone. It is said that when Eliyahu haNavi returns that the true pronunciation will be revealed to the re-established priesthood in the Third temple.

So to answer your question..The divine name cant be properly pronounced at this time so any of the "pronunciations" given today are in error.
thank you, eliyosef. i appreciate your response, though i was hoping to hear back from sonofyah.

blessings to you and yours,
~sarah

[sonofyah]

Why is Jehovah a lie then?

Jehovah is a hybrid english name in which "Je" means absolutley nothing and "hovah" means to bring ruin or mischeif.

Doesnt sound like I AM That I AM to me.

[sonofyah]

you didn't answer the question (again).

the question, in case you misunderstood, was this:

how do you say YHWH in english?

please answer.

These are Hebrew characters written from right to left. There are "no" vowel sounds there. However the biggest debate in Theology is the pronouciation of the Name. But if people would just take the time and look at the scriptures and figure it out for yourself under the direction of the Holy Spirit (Ruach Haqodesh) it would be clear to them. every name with a "iah" or "jah" make the "Yah" sound. Elijah is Eliyah which means Elohim is YHWH. Joshua is the english equivalent to Yahoshua which means YHWH Salvation.
Halleluyah is the highest form of praise because it has the shorten form of the Heavenly Fathers Name in it..hallelu means praise and Yah is the shorten form of his Name which is also permissible because David used it in Psalms 68:4. One thing about hebrew characters that is true is that some characters have two different sounds like the "Waw" and the "Bet"....This can be tricky in names like David, is it David or is it Dawid....

Lets take a minute and look at the "W". I dont know where you live but there are some old buildings where I live that may have the title of the building on it. For instance I have seen "Mvniciple Bvilding" written where the "v" actually made the "u" sound. Now, if you look at the Hebrew Alephbet you might see "waw" or "vav". If you take the vowel out which wasnt there from the begining, you will have "vv" and if the "v" makes the "u" sound you would have "uu". That gives us double "u" which is now a "W".

how do you say YHWH in english?

Why are you asking me to break down the Name of our Heavenly Father into a language that doesnt have a history of more then 500 years and it doesnt have an identity of its own. This english language takes from the German, the French, the Latin, the Arabic and the list goes on and on and on.

Basically, if you want to teach me more english then fine. YHWH is eternal and this is his Name for all generations Shemot(Exodus) 3:15

[sonofyah]

Now you got it, although I wouldnt say it is a lie just "Incorrect"...Mazel tov!

Jehovah and YHWH have two different meanings

Je-hovah-(hybrid) pagan god of ruin and mischief. It appeared when the masoretes inserted the vowels of "Adonai" (Lord) between the Name YHWH

YHWH- I AM THAT I AM. My existance will bring everything into existance

[sonofyah]

And SONOFYAH,

Could you pleaaaaaase answer my questions:

1. Do you think God won't "hear" you or answer your prayers when you're not using the name JHWH?
2. Why don't you answer/disproof the scripture passages posted in this thread used as a proof against your claims?

1. YES, god will hear your prayers. Since Allah means "the god" he may be the one who answers your prayers. But YHWH gave his Name and said this is my Name unto ALL generations also Malachi 3:6- I am YHWH and I change not. Zech 14:9 And YHWH shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one YHWH, and his Name one. He never said call him God, Lord or Jehovah. These are titles and mistransliterations.

2. Romans 1:18 For the wrath of YHWH is revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteouslly;

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of YHWH is manifest in them; for YHWH hath shewed [it] unto them.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power ; so that they are without EXCUSE:

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew YHWH they glorified [him] not as YHWH neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease read these scriptures

Written with Love not negativity

[Sparko]

1. YES, god will hear your prayers. Since Allah means "the god" he may be the one who answers your prayers. But YHWH gave his Name and said this is my Name unto ALL generations also Malachi 3:6- I am YHWH and I change not. Zech 14:9 And YHWH shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one YHWH, and his Name one. He never said call him God, Lord or Jehovah. These are titles and mistransliterations.

2. Romans 1:18 For the wrath of YHWH is revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteouslly;

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of YHWH is manifest in them; for YHWH hath shewed [it] unto them.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power ; so that they are without EXCUSE:

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew YHWH they glorified [him] not as YHWH neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease read these scriptures

Written with Love not negativity

Those verses were not written with YHWH in them. You changed the bible. And you expect us to listen to you?

-
Romans 1:18 - For the wrath of God is revealed (5743) from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Apokaluptetai gar orgh qeou ap' ouranou epi pasan asebeian kaiadikian anqrwpwn twn thn alhqeian en adikia katexontwn,



Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifestin them; for God hath shewed it unto them. dioti to gnwston tou qeou faneron estin en autoiv; o qeov gar autoiv efanerwsen.


[The word used in these verses is "qeou/qeov" or "theos" which means "GOD" - there is no use of a personal name here]


---
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful ; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened .

dioti gnontev ton qeon oux wv qeon edocasan h huxaristhsan, all' emataiwqhsan en toiv dialogismoiv autwn kai eskotisqh h asunetov autwn kardia.


[again, the words used are "THEOS" meaning "GOD" and are no form of personal name is used]

[sonofyah]

But doesn't that mean Jahweh is also "a lie" then, because sonofyah says Jehovah is a lie en Jahweh isn't en he uses the name Jahweh?


Yes, Jahweh is a lie if you are pronouncing the "J" as a "J" and not a "Y". However, by German rule this "J" makes the "Y" sound and we all know German is a source for the english. Wow, even the word alphabet is Greek. For those who went to seminary they learn the sources of the Pentateuch....

J-Yahwist
E-Elohimist
D-Deutoronomist
P-Preistly

Originally, JEDP referred to what scholars had identified as the four main sources of the Pentateuch. There were various perspectives as to the details, but this was generally called the "documentary hypothesis" of biblical origins (sources = documents). This referred to the conclusion that the Pentateuch as we have it had been composed or complied from a variety of previously existing documents or sources. The letters were simply the abbreviations for those earlier documents or sources.

The earliest strands of the biblical traditions, dating perhaps to the time of the Davidic monarchy (1000 BC), were given the designations "J" and "E". The designation J was given to material that primarily used the proper name for God (YHWH, we are not sure how it was pronounced; German scholars developed the method and used the letter "J" since that is the German equivalent of "Y" in Hebrew). It was posited that this material was written or preserved in the Southern Kingdom of Judah after the division of the Kingdom in 922 BC, and perhaps as late as the 8th century BC. It contained the traditions of the Davidic monarchy and the establishment of Jerusalem as the center of worship, as well as recounting the story of the emergence of Israel as a people under God’s guidance. While there is some legal material in these sources, most of it is epic narrative, traditional recounting of the origins of a people and their journey through history.

E was similar material that used the generic term for deity (elohim) in referring the mighty ones. It originated in the Northern Kingdom of Israel, perhaps earlier than J before the establishment of the monarchy, although most placed it around the 8th century BC. Rather than material about the Davidic monarchy, E contained the tribal traditions of the conquest of the land and the traditions about the covenant and the worship centers outside Jerusalem.

D was the designation given to deuteronomic material. This was understood to be instructional or preaching material that used language, concepts, and theological perspectives very similar to that found in the Book of Deuteronomy as well as some of the prophets (e.g., Jeremiah). It focused on faithfulness to God using the covenant traditions as a basis, and was concerned with obedience as proper response to God’s grace. It also included much of the legal material that revolved around obedience to God as faithfulness to the Torah.

There was always debate about the exact time frame of this material, but it was generally agreed that there were two distinct phases in the editing or "redaction" of D material. Some saw it as living tradition that was constantly reapplied within the community. It contained traditions from Moses, but scholars thought that an early form of Deuteronomy was in place as a written document during the reign of Josiah (c. 621 BC), which he used as a basis for his reforms. A later version of this material was reedited after the exile to apply the theology of Mosaic traditions to the crisis of the exile. The perspective of D was also thought to have influenced some of the historical traditions in Samuel-Kings and some of the prophetic traditions, especially that of Jeremiah.

The P material was understood to be priestly material, and focused on the concerns of priests serving in the Jerusalem temple. This would include technical record keeping and legal traditions related to the proper functioning of the Temple and its associated activities. It included material such as detailed regulations about how to observe festivals, the counting of days, the ordering of events into sequence, genealogies and statistics, as well as reflective theological material that related to the keeping of religious law.


What I am showing you is everyone that goes to school to be a Minister of the Good News learns about the "J" source but when they teach the sheep they try to keep the "LIE" and the money consistant. I know this thread rattles a lot of people who did not know but it doesnt have to continue. Proselytizing is not my thing but Truth is. Romans 1:18-21 should be read to those preachers that will have to show an account for there lieing tongue.

Shalom

[sonofyah]

Those verses were not written with YHWH in them. You changed the bible. And you expect us to listen to you?

-
Romans 1:18 - For the wrath of God is revealed (5743) from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Apokaluptetai gar orgh qeou ap' ouranou epi pasan asebeian kaiadikian anqrwpwn twn thn alhqeian en adikia katexontwn,



Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifestin them; for God hath shewed it unto them. dioti to gnwston tou qeou faneron estin en autoiv; o qeov gar autoiv efanerwsen.


[The word used in these verses is "qeou/qeov" or "theos" which means "GOD" - there is no use of a personal name here]


---
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful ; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened .

dioti gnontev ton qeon oux wv qeon edocasan h huxaristhsan, all' emataiwqhsan en toiv dialogismoiv autwn kai eskotisqh h asunetov autwn kardia.


[again, the words used are "THEOS" meaning "GOD" and are no form of personal name is used]







His Name never changes. I'm going to say this again. Exodus 3:15 YHWH tells Moshe that this is his Name to all generations. It would be contrary to the word if his Name is transliterated in the NEW Covenant. Revelations 1:8 tells us that he is the Begining and the End. If so why in the Middle people like you want to change his Holy Name to something else. Zech 14:9 tells us that he is the King over the Earth and its only ONE of him and his Name is One. There is also error in the Greek. Tell me the Greek eqivalent for Elohim which signifies all three...YHWH Elohim...Yahoshua...and the Holy Spirit. Remember Theos means god which is a singular title not a proper Name. In the begining Elohim created the Heavens and the Earth, not God because scripture tells us the Yahoshua was there in the begining and the Ruach Haqodesh moved upon the face of the waters. Before there was time or a dialect his Name was, and still is YHWH. When you turned 21 did the government send you a letter saying your name will be changed. NO. YHWH never changes Malachi 3:6...Dont accuse me of changing scripture talk to the so called greek scholars who did. If you can, give me the New Covenent name's for Moshe, Adam, and Enoch. These names donot lose there pronouciation in your greek text. Only the Name of the Father and the Son. Such disrepect say that I changed it. Relationship with the Holt Spirit is important because he lead you into all Truth.

Paul was a man that knew the Name of the Heavenly Father and the Name of the Mashiac Acts 26:14,15....

I never disrepect you Sparko because its not your fault. There is a problem when your presented with Truth and you start talking about dialects. The Word is a Person. The Truth is a person. The Life you should live is patented after a person and the Way to that person is directed by the Holy Spirit not the greek. That person is Yahoshua Hamashiac. Respect it or choose not to. I still love you all.

[sonofyah]

Those verses were not written with YHWH in them. You changed the bible. And you expect us to listen to you?

-
Romans 1:18 - For the wrath of God is revealed (5743) from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Apokaluptetai gar orgh qeou ap' ouranou epi pasan asebeian kaiadikian anqrwpwn twn thn alhqeian en adikia katexontwn,



Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifestin them; for God hath shewed it unto them. dioti to gnwston tou qeou faneron estin en autoiv; o qeov gar autoiv efanerwsen.


[The word used in these verses is "qeou/qeov" or "theos" which means "GOD" - there is no use of a personal name here]


---
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful ; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened .

dioti gnontev ton qeon oux wv qeon edocasan h huxaristhsan, all' emataiwqhsan en toiv dialogismoiv autwn kai eskotisqh h asunetov autwn kardia.


[again, the words used are "THEOS" meaning "GOD" and are no form of personal name is used]






He that have a ear let him listen to what the Holy Spirit is saying to the assemblies.

[Sparko]

His Name never changes. I'm going to say this again. Exodus 3:15 YHWH tells Moshe that this is his Name to all generations. It would be contrary to the word if his Name is transliterated in the NEW Covenant. Revelations 1:8 tells us that he is the Begining and the End. If so why in the Middle people like you want to change his Holy Name to something else. Zech 14:9 tells us that he is the King over the Earth and its only ONE of him and his Name is One. There is also error in the Greek. Tell me the Greek eqivalent for Elohim which signifies all three...YHWH Elohim...Yahoshua...and the Holy Spirit. Remember Theos means god which is a singular title not a proper Name. In the begining Elohim created the Heavens and the Earth, not God because scripture tells us the Yahoshua was there in the begining and the Ruach Haqodesh moved upon the face of the waters. Before there was time or a dialect his Name was, and still is YHWH. When you turned 21 did the government send you a letter saying your name will be changed. NO. YHWH never changes Malachi 3:6...Dont accuse me of changing scripture talk to the so called greek scholars who did. If you can, give me the New Covenent name's for Moshe, Adam, and Enoch. These names donot lose there pronouciation in your greek text. Only the Name of the Father and the Son. Such disrepect say that I changed it. Relationship with the Holt Spirit is important because he lead you into all Truth.

Paul was a man that knew the Name of the Heavenly Father and the Name of the Mashiac Acts 26:14,15....

I never disrepect you Sparko because its not your fault. There is a problem when your presented with Truth and you start talking about dialects. The Word is a Person. The Truth is a person. The Life you should live is patented after a person and the Way to that person is directed by the Holy Spirit not the greek. That person is Yahoshua Hamashiac. Respect it or choose not to. I still love you all.


with all that, you never said anything to refute that Paul did not say "YHWH" - he instead used THEOS (GOD) in those verses.

You changed THEOS into YHWH in the very verses where you were trying to show that we need to stick to the truth, and by doing so, you change the truth into a lie right in your very quote!

You are a hypocrite, sonofyah. And I don't care how respectful a hypocrite you are, you are still a hypocrite.

The name YHWH was never written in the New Testament. Yes, God gave it as his name in the Old Testament, but the New Testament was written in greek. If you don't believe this, then show me one ancient manuscript of the New Testament written in Hebrew. There ARE NONE. To claim it was written in Hebrew is pure speculation and there is NO EVIDENCE. The closest anyone can come is a rumor that the early church fathers heard that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew. But even THEY did not know for sure and had no evidence of it.

All of earliest manuscripts we have and the early church fathers had were written in Greek. Later manuscripts were translated into various other languages such as latin.

Until you can show me a first or even second century manuscript of the New Testament in Hebrew, you are just blowing smoke. And changing the bible with NO JUSTIFICATION at all, other than you want the originals to have used YHWH.

Show us evidence or admit you are a hypocrite.

[sonofyah]

with all that, you never said anything to refute that Paul did not say "YHWH" - he instead used THEOS (GOD) in those verses.

You changed THEOS into YHWH in the very verses where you were trying to show that we need to stick to the truth, and by doing so, you change the truth into a lie right in your very quote!

You are a hypocrite, sonofyah. And I don't care how respectful a hypocrite you are, you are still a hypocrite.

The name YHWH was never written in the New Testament. Yes, God gave it as his name in the Old Testament, but the New Testament was written in greek. If you don't believe this, then show me one ancient manuscript of the New Testament written in Hebrew. There ARE NONE. To claim it was written in Hebrew is pure speculation and there is NO EVIDENCE. The closest anyone can come is a rumor that the early church fathers heard that Matthew was originally written in Hebrew. But even THEY did not know for sure and had no evidence of it.

All of earliest manuscripts we have and the early church fathers had were written in Greek. Later manuscripts were translated into various other languages such as latin.

Until you can show me a first or even second century manuscript of the New Testament in Hebrew, you are just blowing smoke. And changing the bible with NO JUSTIFICATION at all, other than you want the originals to have used YHWH.

Show us evidence or admit you are a hypocrite.

Shalom. No man has to prove anything. I understand what your problem is. Your god is greek. Thats fine. For a minute there I thought you were talking about us worshiping the Elohim of the Hebrews. God in greek is Theous. Im fine with that too. Your messiahs name is Logos that too is not a problem. I have come to an understanding of your argument. In your own knowledge you are right and im talking about a seperate Spirit.

Please excuse my ignorance to your god, because I dont know him.

[semmie]

Why are you asking me to break down the Name of our Heavenly Father into a language that doesnt have a history of more then 500 years and it doesnt have an identity of its own. This english language takes from the German, the French, the Latin, the Arabic and the list goes on and on and on.

Basically, if you want to teach me more english then fine. YHWH is eternal and this is his Name for all generations Shemot(Exodus) 3:15
oh, nobody is debating how long YHWH will be called YHWH.

the problem i'm having with you, sonofyah, is that you continue to type his name using english characters--but it's not an english name! you are using the same means of transliterating his name (using letters of another language to spell a word so that it maintains at least a close semblance of the original pronunciation of the word) from YHWH to YHWH as you are condemning others for doing when they transliterated the name of the messiah from the hebrew (or aramaic) to the greek.

now unless you can show us that the Greek rendering of the Messiah's name is not an accurate transliteration of the Hebrew name of the Messiah, you simply have no case here.

[Sparko]

Shalom. No man has to prove anything. I understand what your problem is. Your god is greek. Thats fine. For a minute there I thought you were talking about us worshiping the Elohim of the Hebrews. God in greek is Theous. Im fine with that too. Your messiahs name is Logos that too is not a problem. I have come to an understanding of your argument. In your own knowledge you are right and im talking about a seperate Spirit.

Please excuse my ignorance to your god, because I dont know him.

What a ninny!

I am correcting your twisting of scriptures and you claim I am worshipping a different god!

it is YOU who changed the wording of the scripture. Paul never said YHWH, he said THEOS. Paul wrote in greek.

Again, unless you can prove to me that Paul wrote in hebrew and show me the manuscript from the first or second century, then you are being a hypocritical nincompoop. You are quoting passages that tell of truth, and in those very quotes you are spreading a falsehood. You change the very scripture that you claim is holy.

Shame on you. You are a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to lead christians astray. Shame, shame, shame.

[sonofyah]

What a ninny!

I am correcting your twisting of scriptures and you claim I am worshipping a different god!

it is YOU who changed the wording of the scripture. Paul never said YHWH, he said THEOS. Paul wrote in greek.

Again, unless you can prove to me that Paul wrote in hebrew and show me the manuscript from the first or second century, then you are being a hypocritical nincompoop. You are quoting passages that tell of truth, and in those very quotes you are spreading a falsehood. You change the very scripture that you claim is holy.
Shame on you. You are a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to lead christians astray. Shame, shame, shame.

Do you realize your the only one in this thread that is talking about Theos. Theos is a count noun that means "god". Theos doesnot mean I AM THAT I AM or anything remotely close.

Do you believe His Name was ever YHWH or not?

You change the very scripture that you claim is holy.

I believe in the Word. The Word is Yahoshua. His Name never changes. Your way of proving the scripture is by what has been written in a book. You dont know Paul and you dont know YHWH because if you did these things you would not type. My way of proving Yahoshua lives is by my testamony. Spiritual things only can be understood by spiritual people and the knowledge of man always points him in the wrong direction. You have to ask the Holy Spirit to give you understanding of the deep things of YHWH Elohim. Your greek text is just what you understand. Its as far as you are allowing yourself to go. Your greek cant prove something that just "IS". His existance cannot be proven by earthly knowledge. His existance is better than perfect. His existance is so great His people still cannot get pass tha Torah. There mind wont let them except the Son Yahoshua. The very mind your meditating, with is too set in one way. You fight with Holy Spirit and you cannot win. It took me 25 years to find out the name jesus was a lie and the father of lies is satan. There is NO greek equivalent for the adversary satan so why is there a "" equivalent title for Yahoshua and YHWH. You, my son need YHWH and if you ever say you dont my heart bleeds for you and your lineage. I will pray for you in the Name that is above every Name. You can call me whatever you want but the TRUTH was given......

[Sparko]

Do you realize your the only one in this thread that is talking about Theos. Theos is a count noun that means "god". Theos doesnot mean I AM THAT I AM or anything remotely close.

Do you believe His Name was ever YHWH or not?



I believe in the Word. The Word is Yahoshua. His Name never changes. Your way of proving the scripture is by what has been written in a book. You dont know Paul and you dont know YHWH because if you did these things you would not type. My way of proving Yahoshua lives is by my testamony. Spiritual things only can be understood by spiritual people and the knowledge of man always points him in the wrong direction. You have to ask the Holy Spirit to give you understanding of the deep things of YHWH Elohim. Your greek text is just what you understand. Its as far as you are allowing yourself to go. Your greek cant prove something that just "IS". His existance cannot be proven by earthly knowledge. His existance is better than perfect. His existance is so great His people still cannot get pass tha Torah. There mind wont let them except the Son Yahoshua. The very mind your meditating, with is too set in one way. You fight with Holy Spirit and you cannot win. It took me 25 years to find out the name jesus was a lie and the father of lies is satan. There is NO greek equivalent for the adversary satan so why is there a "" equivalent title for Yahoshua and YHWH. You, my son need YHWH and if you ever say you dont my heart bleeds for you and your lineage. I will pray for you in the Name that is above every Name. You can call me whatever you want but the TRUTH was given......

sonofyah,

you are getting more and more on the fringe of sanity.

Can you stick to the point? I never said God's name was not YHWH. It is.

All I was saying is that in those verses you quoted, YHWH was not written by Paul. He wrote THEOS. I am pretty sure that Paul knew that God's name was YHWH and he could have written that if he wanted. The fact is, in those verses, he chose to write THEOS.

None of your obfuscating can change that fact.

Then you come along and quote Paul and change "THEOS" in to "YHWH" when you posted that quote in this thread.

That was changing scripture. Sure God's name is YHWH, but YHWH was not mentioned in those verses. YOU CHANGED IT.

And what were the scriptures talking about. TRUTH.

Since you changed the very words of the verses you quoted, you changed the TRUTH of what those verses said into a LIE.

That makes you a scripture twisting hypocrite or an ignorant and unstable person.

Hey did you know you are mentioned in the bible?

Peter wrote about you when talking about Paul's writings:

2 Peter 3:16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

[semmie]

sparky,

i find it hilariously refreshing that you're still going at it with this kid.

good job!

and your last post was clear and to-the-point. i look forward to seeing sonofyah's response.

blessings,
~sar

[sonofyah]

sonofyah,

you are getting more and more on the fringe of sanity.

Can you stick to the point? I never said God's name was not YHWH. It is.

All I was saying is that in those verses you quoted, YHWH was not written by Paul. He wrote THEOS. I am pretty sure that Paul knew that God's name was YHWH and he could have written that if he wanted. The fact is, in those verses, he chose to write THEOS.

None of your obfuscating can change that fact.

Then you come along and quote Paul and change "THEOS" in to "YHWH" when you posted that quote in this thread.

That was changing scripture. Sure God's name is YHWH, but YHWH was not mentioned in those verses. YOU CHANGED IT.

And what were the scriptures talking about. TRUTH.

Since you changed the very words of the verses you quoted, you changed the TRUTH of what those verses said into a LIE.

That makes you a scripture twisting hypocrite or an ignorant and unstable person.

Hey did you know you are mentioned in the bible?

Peter wrote about you when talking about Paul's writings:

2 Peter 3:16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.


That was changing scripture. Sure God's name is YHWH, but YHWH was not mentioned in those verses. YOU CHANGED IT.

Malichi 3:6- I am YHWH and I change not...

Since you changed the very words of the verses you quoted, you changed the TRUTH of what those verses said into a LIE.

Eph 3:3-5 (paraphrase) Holy men as they heard from the Holy Spirit they wrote.

It is impossible for the Holy Spirit to tell Paul to write "Theos"

John 16:13- Howbeit when he comes the Spirit of Truth and he will lead you and guide you into all TRUTH.

Make sure you are certain that the Holy Spirt told Paul to CHANGE the Name YHWH to a greek title "theos" that doesnt mean I AM THAT I AM, it means god or "the god".

I never said God's name was not YHWH. It is.

These are your words.

Paul knew that God's name was YHWH and he could have written that if he wanted.

Now if you know that Paul knew the Name and you also know the Name, any variation from the TRUTH would be a LIE.

Since you changed the very words of the verses you quoted, you changed the TRUTH of what those verses said into a LIE.

Again, the very thing you accuse me of is the very action your taking. Sparko YHWH said in Exodus 3:14-15- this is my NAME for all generations. That includes our generation if you didnt know. If it is impossible for His word to return unto him void what you have is a contradiction because you cannot confirm that he was called Theos in the Old Covenant. That would mean that he was called god for sure throughout Scripture. You know his Name is YHWH Elohim and not god. God is ANYTHING that is able to be worshipped. YHWH IS, and His existance brings everything into existance that exist. Revelation 1:8- ...who is and who was and who is to come. When he comes back I dont think he wants to be called Theos. Do you?

That makes you a scripture twisting hypocrite or an ignorant and unstable person.

These are your words and if you look below. Those are your words too.

I never said God's name was not YHWH. It is.
All I was saying is that in those verses you quoted, YHWH was not written by Paul. He wrote THEOS. I am pretty sure that Paul knew that God's name was YHWH and he could have written that if he wanted. The fact is, in those verses, he chose to write THEOS.

You are stating that he was called by 2 different Names
I am stating that he is called by 1 name
You are calling me unstable
I am saying he is the same all throughout Scripture.
You are stating that in the New Covenant Theos was written.

The scripture say in James (Yacoob) 1:8- a double minded man is unstable in all of his ways. Now am I double minded or are your double minded. Let me make it simple. You say 2 and I say 1. Somethings wrong here Sparko. You have to come into agreement with the Holy Spirit and stop depending on traditions of men and there revised copies of the scriptures. Proverbs 3:5- Trust in YHWH with all your heart and lean not into your own understanding.

Look below. I cannot leave this one alone. This is for "Semmie", "YamYam", "A cup of Mystery", and everyone else who tried to debate the Name above every Name. This is answered prayer.

I never said God's name was not YHWH. It is.

Thank You...

[Sparko]

Nope sonofyah. I am claiming that Peter is calling you unstable. The rest of us are just observing the fact.

If the holy spirit would never inspire Paul to write "theos" then why did he write "theos?" Are you saying that the bible has been changed? If so, then how do you know the passages that say YHWH were not changed? Maybe God's real name is Fred and some trickster for Satan went through and changed all occurances of Fred to YHWH? If you don't think that happened, then why do you insist that Paul wrote YHWH when all evidence shows he wrote "theos"

PS - NO one in here disputed that YHWH is God's name. We dispute that you must call him YAHWEH or he will not hear your prayers. We dispute that you even know how to pronounce YHWH. We dispute that you must call Jesus Yehoshua or he will not hear you. We dispute that you are sane enough to even understand our arguments.

[InChristAlways]

Nope sonofyah. I am claiming that Peter is calling you unstable. The rest of us are just observing the fact.

If the holy spirit would never inspire Paul to write "theos" then why did he write "theos?" Are you saying that the bible has been changed? If so, then how do you know the passages that say YHWH were not changed? Maybe God's real name is Fred and some trickster for Satan went through and changed all occurances of Fred to YHWH? If you don't think that happened, then why do you insist that Paul wrote YHWH when all evidence shows he wrote "theos"

PS - NO one in here disputed that YHWH is God's name. We dispute that you must call him YAHWEH or he will not hear your prayers. We dispute that you even know how to pronounce YHWH. We dispute that you must call Jesus Yehoshua or he will not hear you. We dispute that you are sane enough to even understand our arguments.Hi Sparky. LOL. Isaiah did say the apostles and His people would know the Lord's name so whatever the NT writers call Him, must be the correct name so as not to be any confusion? Is this talking about a "name", "nature" or "title"? How do you view this?
Does this mean we have to change His name in the OT?
BlessingsIsaiah 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here," says the LORD, "That My people are taken away for nothing? Those who rule over them Make them wail," says the LORD, "And My Name blasphemed continually every day. [i]6 Therefore My people shall know My Name; Therefore [they shall know] in that day That I [am] He who speaks: 'Behold, I.' " [i]7 How beautiful upon the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news, Who proclaims peace, Who brings glad tidings of good [things,] Who proclaims salvation, Who says to Zion, "Your God reigns!"

[sonofyah]

Hi Sparky. LOL. Isaiah did say the apostles and His people would know the Lord's name so whatever the NT writers call Him, must be the correct name so as not to be any confusion? Is this talking about a "name", "nature" or "title"? How do you view this?
Does this mean we have to change His name in the OT?
Blessings

Please answer the question Spark.

[Sparko]

Hi Sparky. LOL. Isaiah did say the apostles and His people would know the Lord's name so whatever the NT writers call Him, must be the correct name so as not to be any confusion? Is this talking about a "name", "nature" or "title"? How do you view this?
Does this mean we have to change His name in the OT?
Blessings

that doesnt quite make sense, but I will try to understand what you are asking.

1. I Never said that Paul did not know God's name.

2. I said that in the previous quote of Romans Paul used the word "theos" to speak about God, just like I used the word God to speak about him in this sentence instead of using his name.

3. There is no reason someone cannot just say "God" when talking about God is there? I mean I am doing it right now. Would Paul HAVE to say YHWH everytime he meantions God? I dont think so. In fact the Jews were a might superstitious about actually saying God's name because they were afraid to mispronounce it and thereby take it in vain. So it was common to say "LORD" and "GOD" instead.

4. When sonofyah quoted those verses, he changed where Paul said GOD (theos) into YHWH.

5. That is changing scripture. If Paul wanted to say YHWH there he could have. He chose to say 'theos' there instead.

Therefore, sonofyah is changing scripture to support his views.

clear enough for you?


Here is what he said:

2. Romans 1:18 For the wrath of YHWH is revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteouslly;

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of YHWH is manifest in them; for YHWH hath shewed [it] unto them.

...

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew YHWH they glorified [him] not as YHWH neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Now, can you show me in the bible where Paul used the word YHWH in those verses? I checked every english translation and the greek manuscripts and I see it nowhere. Can sonofyah produce a first or second century manuscript that has YHWH in those verses?

I am not arguing that Paul's God is not YHWH, just that he happened to choose to write "theos" in those verses and not YHWH, and that sonofyah is changing the verses to support his own doctrine.

[InChristAlways]

sonofyahYou are stating that he was called by 2 different Names
I am stating that he is called by 1 name
You are calling me unstable
I am saying he is the same all throughout Scripture.
You are stating that in the New Covenant Theos was written.

Now, can you show me in the bible where Paul used the word YHWH in those verses? I checked every english translation and the greek manuscripts and I see it nowhere. Can sonofyah produce a first or second century manuscript that has YHWH in those verses?

I am not arguing that Paul's God is not YHWH, just that he happened to choose to write "theos" in those verses and not YHWH, and that sonofyah is changing the verses to support his own doctrine. Hi Sparko.Nice post and I agree. He won't find any.
I believe it is more of the "messianics" that use that if I am not mistaken, as even some of them write "G-D" [as do the jews] instead of God? I will let you and "son" continue before I even get confused.
Blessings.
[i]Isaiah 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here," says the LORD, "That My people are taken away for nothing? Those who rule over them Make them wail," says the LORD, "And My Name blasphemed continually every day.[i]6 Therefore My people shall know My Name; Therefore [they shall know] in that day That I [am] He who speaks: 'Behold, I.'

[sonofyah]

Nope sonofyah. I am claiming that Peter is calling you unstable. The rest of us are just observing the fact.

If the holy spirit would never inspire Paul to write "theos" then why did he write "theos?" Are you saying that the bible has been changed? If so, then how do you know the passages that say YHWH were not changed? Maybe God's real name is Fred and some trickster for Satan went through and changed all occurances of Fred to YHWH? If you don't think that happened, then why do you insist that Paul wrote YHWH when all evidence shows he wrote "theos"

PS - NO one in here disputed that YHWH is God's name. We dispute that you must call him YAHWEH or he will not hear your prayers. We dispute that you even know how to pronounce YHWH. We dispute that you must call Jesus Yehoshua or he will not hear you. We dispute that you are sane enough to even understand our arguments.

Are you saying that the bible has been changed

YES. I'm going to show the inconsistency of the "King James Version" bible.

If you have a King James 1611(the original version) you will notice that it doesnot have the name "jesus" in it. This is true because the letter "j" had not been invented yet. This letter was a mistake of the printing press. It is a longated "I". Enough of that, lets move to the meat. The King James VERSION is not an inspired version. King James was never spoken of in the Scriptures. Also the King James version bible had the Apocrypha in it, NOW ITS NOT THERE. The King James version bible had an illustration in it with the hebrew characters Yod Hay Waw Hay there, NOW ITS NOT. The King James bible once had the name jehovah in it, NOW in the New King James Version ITS NOT.

Deut 4:2- you should not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor should you take away from it that you may keep the commandments of YHWH your Elohim which I command you.

There is so much ERROR in the best selling book in history, its no wonder you think there is so many different names. You put your trust in MAN and his written versions and not the Holy Spirit who will lead you into the TRUTH. YHWH is his Name.

NO one in here disputed that YHWH is God's name. We dispute that you must call him YAHWEH or he will not hear your prayers. We dispute that you even know how to pronounce YHWH. We dispute that you must call Jesus Yehoshua or he will not hear you. We dispute that you are sane enough to even understand our arguments.


Hebrews 6:10. For YHWH is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His Name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. Which Name is Paul talking about Sparko Theos or YHWH.

James 4:17- He who knows to good and does it not, to HIM it is sin. Bottom line is if you know his Name is YHWH be consistant and teach his Name but if there is someone who doesnt know, Yes they are heard.

Hos 4:6- My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy YHWH, I will also forget thy children.

His Name is known - Ezek 39:7 "My holy Name I will make known in the midst of My people Israel; and I will not let My holy Name be profaned anymore. And the nations will know that I am YHWH, the Holy One in Israel.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm I wonder what Name the prophet was talking about.

HE MADE HIS NAME KNOWN....

[sonofyah]

sonofyah
Hi Sparko.Nice post and I agree. He won't find any.
I believe it is more of the "messianics" that use that if I am not mistaken, as even some of them write "G-D" [as do the jews] instead of God? I will let you and "son" continue before I even get confused.
Blessings.




I even get confused

1 Cor 14:33 For YHWH is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

[Sparko]

Learn how to quote properly sonofyah. apparently you are calling yourself unstable in your last post (where you are actually quoting me) :lmbo:

Who cares if the 1611 KJV had IESUS instead of Jesus? What does that have to do with the original greek and Paul's use of Theos instead of YHWH in those verses in Romans?

If the bible is changed, how do you know that YHWH has not been changed too? Maybe it really should be WYWH? or YHHW? or FRED?

If you believe the bible has been changed and even the oldest manuscripts have been tampered with, then you are indeed in trouble my friend because you might be worshipping the wrong name! Dust off those fire proof Pajamas!

Oh wait, we have gone full circle now and are back to where we started a dozen pages ago.

I guess arguing with you is futile.

You are a bible-changing false teacher who has shown himself to be completely dishonest (or insane, I am not sure which)

I pray that it is insanity so that you will not be held responsible for your bad doctrine and even worse logic.

You are right about one thing though, God is not the author of confusion, and that should be a clue to you because your doctrine is very confused.



May God (that's YHWH to you) have mercy upon your soul.

:pray:

[InChristAlways]

Learn how to quote properly sonofyah. apparently you are calling yourself unstable in your last post (where you are actually quoting me) :lmbo:

Who cares if the 1611 KJV had IESUS instead of Jesus? What does that have to do with the original greek and Paul's use of Theos instead of YHWH in those verses in Romans?

If the bible is changed, how do you know that YHWH has not been changed too? Maybe it really should be WYWH? or YHHW? or FRED?

If you believe the bible has been changed and even the oldest manuscripts have been tampered with, then you are indeed in trouble my friend because you might be worshipping the wrong name! Dust off those fire proof Pajamas!

Oh wait, we have gone full circle now and are back to where we started a dozen pages ago.

I guess arguing with you is futile.

You are a bible-changing false teacher who has shown himself to be completely dishonest (or insane, I am not sure which)

I pray that it is insanity so that you will not be held responsible for your bad doctrine and even worse logic.

You are right about one thing though, God is not the author of confusion, and that should be a clue to you because your doctrine is very confused.



May God (that's YHWH to you) have mercy upon your soul.

:pray:ICA: I even get confused Son son: 1 Cor 14:33 For YHWH is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.


LOL Sparko.
God is also not the author of divisions, which you appear to be doing sonofyah, just as Sparko says. You have not responded to his requests yet. When you come up with answers, we will be glad to hear them bro.
Go read a good bible and Love the Lord.
1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you, but [that] you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

[sonofyah]

Learn how to quote properly sonofyah. apparently you are calling yourself unstable in your last post (where you are actually quoting me) :lmbo:

Who cares if the 1611 KJV had IESUS instead of Jesus? What does that have to do with the original greek and Paul's use of Theos instead of YHWH in those verses in Romans?

If the bible is changed, how do you know that YHWH has not been changed too? Maybe it really should be WYWH? or YHHW? or FRED?

If you believe the bible has been changed and even the oldest manuscripts have been tampered with, then you are indeed in trouble my friend because you might be worshipping the wrong name! Dust off those fire proof Pajamas!

Oh wait, we have gone full circle now and are back to where we started a dozen pages ago.

I guess arguing with you is futile.

You are a bible-changing false teacher who has shown himself to be completely dishonest (or insane, I am not sure which)

I pray that it is insanity so that you will not be held responsible for your bad doctrine and even worse logic.

You are right about one thing though, God is not the author of confusion, and that should be a clue to you because your doctrine is very confused.



May God (that's YHWH to you) have mercy upon your soul.

:pray:

Who cares if the 1611 KJV had IESUS instead of Jesus? What does that have to do with the original greek and Paul's use of Theos instead of YHWH in those verses in Romans?

You act as if nothing changed. Thats why I show you the consistent error in your doctrine.

Answer me this one. If the New Covenant says Logos, why do it say jesus now? A consistent lie.

If the bible is changed, how do you know that YHWH has not been changed too? Maybe it really should be WYWH? or YHHW? or FRED?

Because I heard from the Holy Spirit.

If you believe the bible has been changed and even the oldest manuscripts have been tampered with, then you are indeed in trouble my friend because you might be worshipping the wrong name! Dust off those fire proof Pajamas

No, I am Not going to hell. You dont have a heaven or a hell to put me in but blasphemy can garantee you a spot down stairs.

Contradiction. Example below:


I never said God's name was not YHWH. It is.

Both of these qoutes come from you. Read below.

how do you know that YHWH has not been changed too? Maybe it really should be WYWH? or YHHW? or FRED?

You are confused my friend. Both of these qoutes belong to you.
Either you know for sure his name is YHWH or you dont. Make up your mind Sparko.

I pray that it is insanity so that you will not be held responsible for your bad doctrine and even worse logic.

Now this is the question I want you to answer.

In the above qoute you are praying, correct. Who are you asking to grant you this prayer?

a. god
b. theos
c. logos
d. YHWH
e. jesus
f. Iesus
g. Ieosus

Stick with one because the Heavenly Father most definately donot change Names.

Futhermore you havent used any scripture in the last few quotes. Whats the matter, you cant find anything in the scriptures to support your lie.

One more time.

Malachi 3:6- I am YHWH and I change not....

I dare you to find a scripture that can contradict that one scripture.

Impossible.........

[Sparko]

Sonof???,

I believe the bible is true, unchanged and infallable. that means I can confidently say that YHWH is the name of God, and that Paul did not use it in Romans but used THEOS instead

But you have claimed that the bible has been changed and that someone changed YHWH to THEOS in Romans and we have lost the version that has YHWH in it. You further stated that the same thing happened where they took out Yahoshua and stuck in IESOUS.

So you are the one who cannot trust your bible. If people could have changed YHWH to THEOS and Yahoshua to IESOUS and destroyed all trace of the original versions, then you have a fallable bible that you cant trust. For all you know, they might have changed YHWH in the bible too. They might have changed it and now you are using the wrong name.

So how do you know that Malachi 3:6 has not been changed? Maybe it used to say, "I am FRED and I change not." and someone changed it to YHWH? That is what you claim happened elsewhere in the bible, so you open the door to the possibility to have happened anywhere in the bible.

[InChristAlways]

Sonof???,

I believe the bible is true, unchanged and infallable. that means I can confidently say that YHWH is the name of God, and that Paul did not use it in Romans but used THEOS instead

But you have claimed that the bible has been changed and that someone changed YHWH to THEOS in Romans and we have lost the version that has YHWH in it. You further stated that the same thing happened where they took out Yahoshua and stuck in IESOUS.

So you are the one who cannot trust your bible. If people could have changed YHWH to THEOS and Yahoshua to IESOUS and destroyed all trace of the original versions, then you have a fallable bible that you cant trust. For all you know, they might have changed YHWH in the bible too. They might have changed it and now you are using the wrong name.

So how do you know that Malachi 3:6 has not been changed? Maybe it used to say I am FRED and I change not. and someone changed it to YHWH? That is what you claim happened elsewhere in the bible, so you open the door to the possibility to have happened anywhere in the bible.

Stick with one because the Heavenly Father most definately donot change Names.

Futhermore you havent used any scripture in the last few quotes. Whats the matter, you cant find anything in the scriptures to support your lie.

One more time.

Malachi 3:6- I am YHWH and I change not....

I dare you to find a scripture that can contradict that one scripture.

Impossible......... Hi son. If I change my name but not my "nature", have I changed? If you changed your name to "Bonehead" tomorrow, would that change you? If you went from an English name to a German name, would that change you?

I have never heard of such silly reasoning. You haven't proven anything with your rantings.

As far as praying, I call Him Holy Father as I am His Son.:ahem: [and no, I don't mean the "pope"]

You do crack me up though LOL.?

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.

[semmie]

This is for "Semmie", "YamYam", "A cup of Mystery", and everyone else who tried to debate the Name above every Name. This is answered prayer.

:lmbo:

actually, sonofyah--not a one of us said that his name wasn't YHWH.

[InChristAlways]

Quote: Originally posted by furay

And His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many diadems, and He had a name written, which no man knoweth but Himself.
-Apocalypse 19:12
sonofyah I understand what you have there but I am looking for a biblical answer. To qoute me something out of a book used by the Catholic church is a little close minded when you know Catholic meaning "universal" embraces most religions and beliefs. With that being said they have to first find out which god they want serve today. To get you on the right page read Acts 4:12, Acts 26:14, John 5:43 to name a few :rofl: :lmbo: :lmbo: :lmbo: :lmbo:

Quote: Originally posted by sonofyah

This is for "Semmie", "YamYam", "A cup of Mystery", and everyone else who tried to debate the Name above every Name. This is answered prayer.

:lmbo:

actually, sonofyah--not a one of us said that his name wasn't YHWH.LOL

Hi "sonofwhoever".

Hosea warned you, but you still aren't listening! He isn't rejecting you for writing His name correctly but for:

Hos 4:6- My people["sonofyah"] are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou["sonofyah] hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee[sonofyah],............ :smile:

[sonofyah]

sonofyah :rofl: :lmbo: :lmbo: :lmbo: :lmbo:

Quote: Originally posted by sonofyah

This is for "Semmie", "YamYam", "A cup of Mystery", and everyone else who tried to debate the Name above every Name. This is answered prayer.

LOL

Hi "sonofwhoever".

Hosea warned you, but you still aren't listening! He isn't rejecting you for writing His name correctly but for:

Hos 4:6- My people["sonofyah"] are destroyed for [color=blue]lack of knowledge: because thou["sonofyah] hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee[sonofyah],............ :smile:

Dont be so quick to judge. You shouldnt tell me my judgement because you havent the right or the power to do so.