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Hidden Manna
September 18th 2005, 12:49 AM
No More, Death, Sorrow, Crying and Pain

Has YAHWEH Elohim wiped away all tears from our eyes and is there no more death, sorrow, crying and pain (Rev. 21.4)? In order to truly comprehend our Bible we must see things through God’s perspective and not man.

It isn’t that what the Bible says is so difficult to understand; the problem is our traditions has made the word of God of no effect. Casting aside the traditional teachings of men, let’s look at Scripture.

Beginning early in Genesis and continuing throughout the Jewish age, or Old Testament God’s Spirit did not dwell with man because of sin death (See Gen. 3:17-24). Mankind was born in sin. This was what David meant when he wrote, Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me (Psa 51:5). The soul who sins shall die, (Eze. 18:20a) It is important to understand because of this sin death everyone was separated from the presence of God and upon died physical went to the place of the dead. As sinners man bore the consequences of sin. Sin and death are linked together.

Spiritual death is an enemy because it held even the righteous separated from God. They were not in torment as were the wicked, but they were not in the presence of God, either. (Luke 16:20-31)

The portion of that nether world that held the righteous dead is called Sheol, or Hades or Abraham’s bosom but not heaven. Paul tells us during this time the gentiles were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, (having no hope and without God in the world). (Eph. 2:12) These were also terrible times for the gentiles.

God speaking through the prophets, said that a day would come when He would make a covenant of redemption with the house of Israel and forget their sins. (Jer. 31:31-33). This would destroy the works of Satan done in the Garden of Eden that brought separation between God and man. God would again tabernacle with man His sanctuary or presence would be with man forevermore. Man would again be in God’s presence forever (Lev. 26:11-12; Eze. 37:24-28 Rev.21:1-4).

To understand God’s word, we must see things from God’s perspective. Death, to God, meant to be separated from him. Physical death is a separation of the soul from the body however it does not stop man from being in the presence of God. Sin death does. ‘The soul who sins shall die.’ (Exe.18:20) When this last enemy was destroyed as God declared he would again tabernacle with man. And with man again being in the presence of God this would also bring an end to sorrow, crying, and pain.

Let’s stop here and look at all the context of (Revelation 21:2-4) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

John here is speaking from God’s viewpoint, not mans. When God’s tabernacle is with men, and he dwells with them, and they are his people, God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Do you now see all the context of these verse?

To literalize all the means of John prophecies in Revelation 21:2-4 and say these things has not happen yet means the Old Covenant prophecies and promises about God destroying (spiritual death) have not yet been fulfilled and we are still in our sins.

There is no more death is clear from the fact that there is no more sin. Remember God’s promises to remember sin no more in Jer. 31:31-33 when the New Covenant was consummated. This is not man’s opinion this is inspired writ, i.e., God’s opinion.

It is also clear from a passage such as Isaiah 25: 8 (quoted in I Corinthians 15) which speaks of death being swallowed up in victory in the day of the Lord. It is also clear from Revelation 21:4 which is the very New Testament explanation of the joyful state depicted in Isaiah 65 as it says: “And God shall wipe away all tears from their eves: and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passing away.”

The concept of God wiping away the tears from all faces; and weeping and crying not be heard anymore was only used twice in the OT; in Isaiah 25:8 and 65:17-19) It was then later continued by John in Rev. 21:2-4 in referencing Isa. 25:8; 65:17-19. There is no more tears, pain, and sorrow because God has destroyed the last enemy sin death.

We on the other hand because of out traditions have made the word of God of no effect and developed a doctrine out of just 1 verse which says there will be no more pain and tears or sorrow on this earth and in this life. We have arrived at the wrong conclusions.

When Paul wrote in 2 Cor 5:17 of new believer in Christ – you for example, “if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” – he had the same things in mind. Death that separates man from the presence of God had passed away and all things were becoming new. There would be no more tears, pain, or sorrow of death, because man was no longer separated from his Creator. God loves man and desired to be with him and be his God as we have seen over and over in the Old Testament.

The power of the cross is not just the power to save a man’s soul, but it is also the power to change the world of sin and death that produced that man. Under this New Beginning (New Covenant) we enjoy the abolition of death (Isa.25:8) These glorious statements in Isa. 25:8 that symbolize peace and joy in God’s presence also include a phrase that seems unrelated. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. (Rev 21:4) It is equally true, as foreseen by the prophet Isaiah.

Xmansmommy
September 18th 2005, 01:48 AM
Spiritual death is an enemy because it held even the righteous separated from God. They were not in torment as were the wicked, but they were not in the presence of God, either. (Luke 16:20-31)

To understand God’s word, we must see things from God’s perspective. Death, to God, meant to be separated from him. Physical death is a separation of the soul from the body however it does not stop man from being in the presence of God. Sin death does. ‘The soul who sins shall die.’ (Exe.18:20) When this last enemy was destroyed as God declared he would again tabernacle with man. And with man again being in the presence of God this would also bring an end to sorrow, crying, and pain.

There is no more death is clear from the fact that there is no more sin. Remember God’s promises to remember sin no more in Jer. 31:31-33 when the New Covenant was consummated. This is not man’s opinion this is inspired writ, i.e., God’s opinion.


Hello Hidden Manna. I appreciate your thoughts on this topic. I didn't quote the entirety of your post but only the parts that I would like clarification on. Since God destroyed the last enemy (death) and He now tabernacles with man in the NC, is there now still spiritual death? Or do you believe God has put an end to spiritual death for all men?

Hidden Manna
September 18th 2005, 04:16 PM
Hello Hidden Manna. I appreciate your thoughts on this topic. I didn't quote the entirety of your post but only the parts that I would like clarification on. Since God destroyed the last enemy (death) and He now tabernacles with man in the NC, is there now still spiritual death? Or do you believe God has put an end to spiritual death for all men?

Personal I see spiritual death as a state mankind is in until they turn to Jesus and become born again or of the Spirit at which time they die to self "righteousness or of the law" being crucified with Christ and also share in His resurrection into the new covenant or new heaven and earth.