Standing before Jehovah

[Shadow Phoenix]

Imagine this scenario.

You have been a faithful Jehovah's Witness all your life. You die in the presence of family and friends peacefully and happily thanking Jehovah for all the time you've had to serve him.

Later, you stand before the judgment seat. It is the last day of judgment. There you are before the throne of Jehovah and he is on it in all of his glory. He then takes you to a passage of his Scriptures.

He takes you to Deut. 18 where you are told unequivocally not to follow a false prophet. You are then reminded of all of the numerous false prophecies that the WTBTS has made over the years. You realize that you have ignored those for the time being, but now, you have to give an answer before Jehovah. How will you justify to him listening to a false prophet all your life?

Ball's in your court if you're a JW. What do you say?

[HasteTheDay]

This is one question I've never seen answered by JW or any other cult that have made false prophecies.

[Topherlee]

The bible says that prophecy is good for the soul. But, you must know and understand prophecy and what it means - a lot of which still has to be studied. If I tell you the end is coming, am I prophecying, yes. Because this is in the bible - for everyday we are closer to the end. If I tell you the end will come in 2006, should you prepare? As a Christian, you should always be prepared. But if you take it for earnest and sale your property, quit your job or do something out of the normal, then you do not obtain sufficient bible knowledge. This is evident in any religion whether you are a Baptist, JW, Catholic, etc...
No one knows when the end will come, not even the Son, only the Father. Prophecy keeps the faithful, faithful and prepared (knowledge).

Not a JW, but the more I read the bible through my personal thoughts, the more I understand.

[Shadow Phoenix]

The bible says that prophecy is good for the soul. But, you must know and understand prophecy and what it means - a lot of which still has to be studied. If I tell you the end is coming, am I prophecying, yes. Because this is in the bible - for everyday we are closer to the end. If I tell you the end will come in 2006, should you prepare? As a Christian, you should always be prepared. But if you take it for earnest and sale your property, quit your job or do something out of the normal, then you do not obtain sufficient bible knowledge. This is evident in any religion whether you are a Baptist, JW, Catholic, etc...
No one knows when the end will come, not even the Son, only the Father. Prophecy keeps the faithful, faithful and prepared (knowledge).

Not a JW, but the more I read the bible through my personal thoughts, the more I understand.

I do have a thread in this forum on the false prophecies of the WT. You wanna tell me how the WT can make those false prophecies and still be an organization one should follow?

[Pythagoras]

Hi ApologiaNick,

Would you say the Marian prophecies of the Catholic Church ,like the Fatima predictions, are true or false?

It's easy to pick on the JW's.

Why not have the guts to answer my question.

best wishes,

[Shadow Phoenix]

Hi ApologiaNick,

Would you say the Marian prophecies of the Catholic Church ,like the Fatima predictions, are true or false?

It's easy to pick on the JW's.

Why not have the guts to answer my question.

best wishes,

Hi Py. I'm not a Roman Catholic, so the question is irrelevant to me. This thread is about the JWs though. If you want to start a thread about Roman Catholicism prophecies, then go to another forum to do so

[Topherlee]

I don't think Py's response is so irrelevant to this thread. In the last 2000 years or so, Christianity has been preached, studied and put under the influence of man's arrogance. If you do not see man as infallibile, then you believe what you preach is the truth. There is one truth, yet so many religions - which not all, even of the same denomination, agree upon.
I make no criticisms or arguments for any religion. Prophecy is biblical, to prophecy, as the bible says, is good for the soul. If you do not have biblical knowledge, then you are lost. Lack of biblical knowledge is evident in any religion.
Everyone criticizes the JWs, who are Christians in there own right, but fail to recognize what Jesus said, you will be hated for what you preach. I fail to see any type of deception in what they preach. They prophesied in the year 1914, the end would come (again, you must have an understanding of what prophecy is). Well, we know it did not end. But look at history, what happened in 1914 - and after that, what happened. Man will bring themselves to hurt beyond repair. If you look around and see that man has not only waged war on themselves, but on the environment as well, that we are depleting our resources to our end. We are destroying this planet. This is biblical - prophecy. Why criticise a religion for the obvious? The end of this system of things is coming...

[Pythagoras]

Hi apologianick,

Hi Py. I'm not a Roman Catholic, so the question is irrelevant to me.

Neither are you a JW. So why does this question concern you when it applies to JW's and not when it applies to Catholics ?


If you want to start a thread about Roman Catholicism prophecies, then go to another forum to do so


If I start a thread on false prophecies of the Roman Catholic church, would my question still be irrelevant to you or would you answer it?

Obviously you're not the brightest crayon in the pack .

best wishes anyway,

[Shadow Phoenix]

I don't think Py's response is so irrelevant to this thread. In the last 2000 years or so, Christianity has been preached, studied and put under the influence of man's arrogance. If you do not see man as infallibile, then you believe what you preach is the truth. There is one truth, yet so many religions - which not all, even of the same denomination, agree upon.
I make no criticisms or arguments for any religion. Prophecy is biblical, to prophecy, as the bible says, is good for the soul. If you do not have biblical knowledge, then you are lost. Lack of biblical knowledge is evident in any religion.
Everyone criticizes the JWs, who are Christians in there own right, but fail to recognize what Jesus said, you will be hated for what you preach. I fail to see any type of deception in what they preach. They prophesied in the year 1914, the end would come (again, you must have an understanding of what prophecy is). Well, we know it did not end. But look at history, what happened in 1914 - and after that, what happened. Man will bring themselves to hurt beyond repair. If you look around and see that man has not only waged war on themselves, but on the environment as well, that we are depleting our resources to our end. We are destroying this planet. This is biblical - prophecy. Why criticise a religion for the obvious? The end of this system of things is coming...

Are you aware of the prophecies of 1925, and 1975 also? Are you aware that the patriarchs were to live in Beth-Sarim? This is something the WT has done constantly and repeatedly. Deuteronomy 18 is clear

[Shadow Phoenix]

Hi apologianick,



Neither are you a JW. So why does this question concern you when it applies to JW's and not when it applies to Catholics ?

The JWs are a far moer dangerous group. If you want to show some of the false prophecies of the RCC given by its leaders, go ahead.



If I start a thread on false prophecies of the Roman Catholic church, would my question still be irrelevant to you or would you answer it?

I might. It's not that big of an interest to me as I know more JWs than Roman Catholics.

Obviously you're not the brightest crayon in the pack .

best wishes anyway,

From the one who consistently ignored my posts on his last rant and the one who never accepted my debate challenge.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

And furthermore, to justify something by saying someone else does it is the tu quoque fallacy.

So when you're done using bad logic, we can chat.

[Pythagoras]

Hi Apologianick,

Just answer my original question.

[Shadow Phoenix]

Hi Apologianick,

Just answer my original question.

Already answered. I'd have to see some of the prophecies myself and when they were made and what they said and the RCC response. I was on PALtalk regularly for years. We encounter JWs far more than RCC's.

[Pythagoras]

Hi Apologianick,

Do you think the following famous prophecy, fully sanctioned by the Vatican, is from God ?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_Fatima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_Fatima)



"You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God) wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: …. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world...."



And please answer the question.

best wishes,

[Shadow Phoenix]

Hi Apologianick,

Do you think the following famous prophecy, fully sanctioned by the Vatican, is from God ?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_Fatima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_Fatima)



"You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God) wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: …. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world...."



And please answer the question.

best wishes,

Hi Py. The answer to your question is simple. It's still the same as in Deuteronomy 18.

If a prophet says something and it does not come to pass, then that one is a false prophet. I don't accept much of what the RCC has done in the recent past. I believe that secularization and pluralization has effected them as well. However, as the false prophecies of the JWs are well-known and the prophecies are said to come from God himself, I'm interested in seeing the JW response. I haven't seen anyone who labels themselves as a JW yet answering. I'm not surprised.

Now if you want to say that there have been false prophecies in the RCC, go ahead. It won't bother me a bit.

[Pythagoras]

Hi Apologianick,

Answer the question. Is that prophecy from God, yes or No?

[Shadow Phoenix]

Hi Apologianick,

Answer the question. Is that prophecy from God, yes or No?

I see no reason to think it is. It makes about as much sense as the "prophecies" of Nostradamus. If any part of it came true, we really couldn't tell which.

[Pythagoras]

Thank You, Apologianick.

You should have answered like this from the get go.

[HasteTheDay]

Already on the second page and still no replies to the original question. Amazing.

[Krusader]

Already on the second page and still no replies to the original question. Amazing.

And, you won't get any, since the average JW does not believe he'll be standing before Jehovah's throne in heaven and seeing God.

The false prohetic record of the Society cannot be justified because other groups have also misled the flock. However, regarding the Roman Catholic Marian prophecies, the RCCs do not teach these as dogma necesssary for salvation. It is lamentable that the magisterium does not speak out against these types of things, but apparently they do not.

The Watchtower Society however, teaches that it is the sole channel on earth used by Jehovah God to communicate truth to its flock. In fact, they justify their veracity as "God's organization" by pointing to their prophetic role. A close inspection of those claims, however, will reveal to anybody with the drive to investigate that record that the Society has a dismal record as a prophet and is, in fact, a false prophet.

We should note that Watchtowerites are discouraged by their leadership from any close examination of the Watchtower's history from either secular or non-WT sources. If you were to give a Watchtowerite a list of the failed prophecies when they come calling they will either give it a cursory glance and throw it away or refuse to look at it at all.

Most Watchtowerites live in a closed society when it comes to religion, and are force-fed the party line via the Watchotwer Studies. Other sources of information are basically forbidden. They get around their false prophetic statements by claiming that the Society now has new light, which is getting brighter day by day, and they are now able to undertand more clearly things that were only partially understood before. In other words, their old light was false, their new light is true, but since the light may get brighter, the new light of today could become the false light of tomorrow - and around and around we go.