Stubborn stigma against Paul must go!

[David Ben-Ariel]

Many have fallen for the religious lie that the Apostle Paul spoke against the Law. Like Yashua, HE DIDN'T! He upheld the Law and the Prophets, unlike so many today. Paul spoke against trying to earn your salvation or teaching that Gentiles must be circumcised, but he continued to faithfully observe proper Jewish practices that are biblical.

Recently a pro-Israel Muslim repeated the mantra against Paul and I did my best to give him some kosher food for thought.

Sheik Palazzi and the Apostle Paul (http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=76405)

Has your Church got this right? Or do they deny that Gentiles have to abide by the commandments of the early Church council?

If you are going make a case, please present the whole case here with links as supporting references only. We do not allow people to advertise, in this forum.

[yxboom]

Has your Church got this right? Or do they deny that Gentiles have to abide by the commandments of the early Church council?
depends on what you consider Law. abstaining from foods and observance of sabbath/holy days?

[infide]

Many have fallen for the religious lie that the Apostle Paul spoke against the Law. Like Yashua, HE DIDN'T! He upheld the Law and the Prophets, unlike so many today. Paul spoke against trying to earn your salvation or teaching that Gentiles must be circumcised, but he continued to faithfully observe proper Jewish practices that are biblical.

I agree with you that Paul did not speak against Torah. But he did speak against the requirements of Torah (circumcision, ceremonial law, etc) for salvation that were thought by the Judaizers to be necessary for salvation. It is not altogether clear that Paul continued to observe all the Jewish practices while in mission to the Gentiles. He may have.

But Paul was Jewish, and we know that certain things in Torah were a sign between God and the Jewish descendants, not the Gentiles. Now as Gentiles became a part of the Church, this started to yield controversy, since some believed that people who became part of the spiritual Israel under the New Covenant in Christ were now to honor those signs. But the Apostles (and the moderate dispensationalists of today) recognized that this was a false assumption. The key is that both Jews and Gentiles came together as the Body of Christ, and being Jesus was Jewish and said to be the fulfillment of the promise of Abraham by Paul, so the Gentile believers enter in from that extension (Galatians 3).

Recently a pro-Israel Muslim repeated the mantra against Paul and I did my best to give him some kosher food for thought.

Sheik Palazzi and the Apostle Paul (http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=76405)

Has your Church got this right? Or do they deny that Gentiles have to abide by the commandments of the early Church council?

I wonder what "commandments" you have in mind. The Council in Jerusalem issued these commands:

"The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings. 24 "Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, 25 it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 "Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." (Acts 15:23-29, NASB)

Okay, so we have 4 things:

(1) Abstain from things sacrificed to idols.
(2) Abstain from blood.
(3) Abstain from things strangled.
(4) Abstain from fornication.

As far as (1) is concerned, we may think that this and the rest of these prohibitions (except perhaps 2 and most definately except 4) were something of a word of Wisdom from the Apostles for the sake of the Jews who would have seen a lax attitude towards these things as a sign that they had not put away idolatry fully. The reason I say this is because of Romans 14 - where Paul seems to be talking about meat which had been sacrificed to idols, and how this was a matter of Christian liberty, and each should be convinced in faith.

On prohibition (2) this may be more universal in nature, because it was a prohibition given not just to Abraham or Moses but to Noah, from whom according to tradition all men have descended. Its interesting to note however, that we moderns know that it is fairly impossible to remove all blood from any kind of meat. We might reconsider then that this prohibition then deals with proper handling and respecting of blood, as a sign and rememberance of the importance of the shed blood of Christ -- and of course from any kind of ritual or raw consuming of animal blood.

Concerning (4) this was certainly an obvious prohibition. But what I find interesting is that we dont find a long thesis and a list of the ten commandments and all - We dont really have the Apostles giving instruction for Gentiles to follow Torah (as some Messianic-types argue today) - we have this one simple prohibition. It seems to me that it was assumed that these Gentile believers knew basic morality and the Apostles were asserting key points of specific Jewish interest.

So in summation then, I might argue that to the extent that Gentiles are required to keep Torah, it is only of the Universal Moral Law which resides in Torah and in the conscience of a person. The Gentile Christian is bound to no observance of Torah, except that He be convinced of it in His own heart before the Lord.

The Jewish Christian, may observe Torah requirements in response to many of them being a sign of Covenant between they and God for all generations. I see no specific requirement of them to do so however. All believers in Christ are saved by Gods grace through belief in Messiah.

peace,
jd

[smaller]

Many have fallen for the religious lie that the Apostle Paul spoke against the Law. Like Yashua, HE DIDN'T! He upheld the Law and the Prophets, unlike so many today. Paul spoke against trying to earn your salvation or teaching that Gentiles must be circumcised, but he continued to faithfully observe proper Jewish practices that are biblical.

Recently a pro-Israel Muslim repeated the mantra against Paul and I did my best to give him some kosher food for thought.

Sheik Palazzi and the Apostle Paul (http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=76405)

Has your Church got this right? Or do they deny that Gentiles have to abide by the commandments of the early Church council?

Love is not against ANY of God's Laws, yet THE LAW as given by Moses is as Paul stated, "for the lawless" who are aroused by, empowered by and revealed by The Law.

Israel did not get this THEN nor do they get it NOW and the reason Israel does not get it THEN or YET is because of the lawless who dwell in the flesh of all men for whom God intended The Law.

In this understanding The Law is our ally and as such is upheld, established and SERVED in the mind and not in or by the flesh.

enjoy!

smaller

[David Ben-Ariel]

depends on what you consider Law. abstaining from foods and observance of sabbath/holy days?

The early Church, both converted Jews and Gentiles, kept the biblical Sabbath, biblical festivals and biblical dietary laws - just like our Lord (King) and Savior (Priest) Yashua will command the whole world to do when He reigns from Jerusalem! At that glorious time, the idolatrous traditions of men, baptized paganism dressed in the drag of traditional Churchianity, will be history, thank God.

[David Ben-Ariel]

The strict Pharisee Paul, who continued to call himself a Pharisee AFTER his Christian conversion, saying, "Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee; concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged!" (Acts 23:6), NEVER said there was no need of circumcision anymore, of Temple services or ritual commandments of the Torah for the JEWS, but he did say many of these holy things weren't required of GENTILE converts to Christianity, agreeing with the Jerusalem Council that decreed:

Acts 15:19-29

19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the GENTILES who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas,leading men among the brethren. 23 They wrote this, letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the GENTILES in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you [Gentiles] with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well."

So you see that Paul taught that the GENTILES should keep the minimum requirements of abstaining from immorality, obeying the dietary laws, keeping the biblical Sabbath and festivals!

The early Christian fellowship in Jerusalem, led by James the brother of Jesus (Yashua), tried to correct this STUBBORN STIGMA AGAINST PAUL that continues to this day and advised him:

Acts 21:20-26

20 And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. 25 But concerning the GENTILES who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."

26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them....

So here the Jewish-Christian leaders in Jerusalem praised the zeal and devotion of the Jews, but were acknowledging that wild rumors and false allegations, disinformation, had been spread against Paul. To prove such charges were groundless, that Paul continued to follow halacha, Jewish traditions and Torah, they encouraged him to go sacrifice with Jews under a Nazarite vow, which he did! Paul sacrificed in the Temple, but then another misunderstanding and rumor spread that he had taken a Gentile into the Temple! Oy veh!

[yxboom]

The early Church, both converted Jews and Gentiles, kept the biblical Sabbath, biblical festivals and biblical dietary laws - just like our Lord (King) and Savior (Priest) Yashua will command the whole world to do when He reigns from Jerusalem! At that glorious time, the idolatrous traditions of men, baptized paganism dressed in the drag of traditional Churchianity, will be history, thank God.

25 But concerning the GENTILES who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."

biblical Sabbath, biblical festivals and biblical dietary laws??? come again.

[infide]

biblical Sabbath, biblical festivals and biblical dietary laws??? come again.

Not to mention:

"4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. 7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; 8 for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's." (Romans 14, NASB)

When are these new Judaizers going to get a clue regarding Christian Liberty as taught by the Apostles?

peace,
jd

[David Ben-Ariel]

biblical Sabbath, biblical festivals and biblical dietary laws??? come again.

Yes, when Jesus comes again HE will restore the biblical Sabbath, biblical festivals and biblical dietary laws that He both kept and taught, as well as the early Church (both converted Jews and Gentiles). Today's idolatrous ideas of men, their tinsel traditions, will be history!

Both Jews and Israelites, and Gentiles, will be commanded to love and obey God according to the holy Law of God that will serve as Earth's Constitution.

Zechariah 14:16

The Nations Worship the King

16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.