JFE - 1 Cor 15:24-28 - One Lord God

[apostoli]

This thread is an attempt to focus on a "single topic" and is a continuation of Apostoli's and John from Elber's conversation on the threads 1="More Anti-Trin Argument" and 2="JFE: Rev 5:7. One Lord God." Apostoli is arguing from an orthodox view of the trinity. JFE (?)

One Lord God. Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings- there is no Lord or King above him.apostoli replied post #2:1 and is awaiting a response.

1 Cor 15:24-28 creates a major problem for your theory: "Then cometh the end, when [Christ] shall deliver up the kingdom to God, [his] Father" and "the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him". Also note vs 27 where it says God put all things under Jesus, except himself.

[John from Ebla]

This thread is an attempt to focus on a "single topic" and is a continuation of Apostoli's and John from Elber's conversation on the threads 1="More Anti-Trin Argument" and 2="JFE: Rev 5:7. One Lord God." Apostoli is arguing from an orthodox view of the trinity. JFE (?)

apostoli replied post #2:1 and is awaiting a response.

1 Cor 15:24-28 creates a major problem for your theory: "Then cometh the end, when [Christ] shall deliver up the kingdom to God, [his] Father" and "the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him". Also note vs 27 where it says God put all things under Jesus, except himself.

It is a problem for your many gods

When the word that was God became flesh it was still God John 1:1-3,10,14 "There is not one scipture that say's " the word that was "God" was no longer God when he became flesh"

While the word was in the the flesh he always stated he was One with the Father and that he was subject to the Father. John 13:9 "anyone who has seen me has seen the Father"

One God and One Lord as Paul said in (1Cor 8:6) The Lord is Lords and Cor 8king of Kings, meaning there is no Lord or King above him.

Kind regards
John from Ebla

[John from Ebla]

This thread is an attempt to focus on a "single topic" and is a continuation of Apostoli's and John from Elber's conversation on the threads 1="More Anti-Trin Argument" and 2="JFE: Rev 5:7. One Lord God." Apostoli is arguing from an orthodox view of the trinity. JFE (?)

apostoli replied post #2:1 and is awaiting a response.

1 Cor 15:24-28 creates a major problem for your theory: "Then cometh the end, when [Christ] shall deliver up the kingdom to God, [his] Father" and "the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him". Also note vs 27 where it says God put all things under Jesus, except himself.

Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and His Redeemer the Lord of Hosts I Am the first, and I Am the last; and besides Me there is no God Isaiah 44:6. ("Me" and "l" is singular.

"I Am the first and the last" I Am He that liveth and was dead; and, behold, I Am alive forevermore, Amen;" Revelation 1:17,18


Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:24

He that descended is the same also that ascended up into heaven, ... that He might fill all things." Eph. 9:10.

"I and the father are One" One Lord and God

Kind regards
John From Ebla

[apostoli]

Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and His Redeemer the Lord of Hosts I Am the first, and I Am the last; and besides Me there is no God Isaiah 44:6. ("Me" and "l" is singular.)The context is in verse 9. YHWH is referring to his position in regards to gods created by men. The Lord of Hosts is the only true God!

"I Am the first and the last" I Am He that liveth and was dead; and, behold, I Am alive forevermore, Amen;" Revelation 1:17,18In previous posts you say God did not die, only the flesh of the man Jesus died. Rev 1:18 has the one called "the first and the last" in verse 18 saying "I am he that lives, and was dead, I am alive for evermore. Compare Col 1:15-19.

Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:24And yet A.John says there is still room for 24 thrones, multitudes, beasties etc etc. In Rev and Jeremiah we have symbolic language.

If bothered to read Jer. 23:23-24 God is saying he is a personal God that knows all. "Am I a God at hand, says the YHWH, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret that I shall not see him?"

He that descended is the same also that ascended up into heaven, ... that He might fill all things." Eph. 9:10.Presume you are refering to John 3:13. In which case John 3:33 agrees with you "He that has received his testimony has set his seal to this God is true.

"I and the father are One" One Lord and GodIn which case and assuming God heard Jesus prayer we are included in your "Our Lord and God". John 17:20-23 "that they [that believe on me] maybe one even as we are one"

[apostoli]

It is a problem for your many godsIt isn't a problem for me, I don't believe in multiple persons who each existed without source and cause. Remember: I believe in one God the Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ/the Logos who was made flesh, died for our sins, was risen from the dead by his Father and ascended into heaven and who has been made God to us for a time, and when "cometh the end, when [Christ] shall deliver up the kingdom to God, [his] Father" and the Son will also subject himself unto his Father, the one who had subjected all things unto him". 1 Cor 15:24-28

When the word that was God became flesh it was still God John 1:1-3,10,14 "There is not one scipture that say's " the word that was "God" was no longer God when he became flesh"I agree! But based on your other posts you don't actually believe that Jesus Christ is the Logos, not that the "Word was made flesh". In the past you have said it merely tabernacled/tented in the flesh of the man Jesus Christ. Aka just like a demon might!

While the word was in the the flesh he always stated he was One with the Father and that he was subject to the Father.
In my opinion: Jesus was/is the Logos who "was made flesh" and yes he said all things he taught were from the Father, he agreed with the Father and was in unity with him (not opposing God's will as the Pharisees etc did) and he all his power and authority came from the Father.

John 13:9 "anyone who has seen me has seen the Father"As A.Paul has it Jesus is "the express image of [God's] person" Heb 1,3

One God and One Lord as Paul said in (1Cor 8:6) The Lord is Lords and Cor 8 king of Kings, meaning there is no Lord or King above him.A.Paul at Eph 1:17 refers to "the God of our Lord Jesus Christ" and at Eph 3:14 he says "I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." Which just goes to show that 1 Cor 8:6 is speaking of two persons. As Revelation (17:14) refers to the Lamb=Jesus as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and A.Paul says that Jesus will hand over the kingdom to his Father and subject himself to his Father then it is obvious that the title "King of Kings and Lord of Lords" as applied to Jesus is in the context of all those things that God put under the Son. (1 Cor 15:24-28).

Just reciting the phrase "The Lord is Lords and king of Kings, meaning there is no Lord or King above him" as a mantra, doesn't make 1 Cor 15:24-28 go away. It just shows you prefer to ignore scripture which you doesn't fit your theories.

If you have an alternative explanation of who Jesus is King of Kings, Lord of Lord but subjects himself to the Father then I'm interested in knowing what it is.

[John from Ebla]

It isn't a problem for me, I don't believe in multiple persons who each existed without source and cause. Remember: I believe in one God the Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ/the Logos who was made flesh, died for our sins, was risen from the dead by his Father and ascended into heaven and who has been made God to us for a time, and when "cometh the end, when [Christ] shall deliver up the kingdom to God, [his] Father" and the Son will also subject himself unto his Father, the one who had subjected all things unto him". 1 Cor 15:24-28.

gods, gods and many gods You are yet to take hold of one God.


I agree! But based on your other posts you don't actually believe that Jesus Christ is the Logos, not that the "Word was made flesh". In the past you have said it merely tabernacled/tented in the flesh of the man Jesus Christ. Aka just like a demon might!..

l have alsways said Jesus was the Memra of God.


In my opinion: Jesus was/is the Logos who "was made flesh" and yes he said all things he taught were from the Father, he agreed with the Father and was in unity with him (not opposing God's will as the Pharisees etc did) and he all his power and authority came from the Father..

Your opinon. well said.


As A.Paul has it Jesus is "the express image of [God's] person" Heb 1,3.

Your haveing problems in the "Rev 5:7" Who do we See. Does God have a image?


A.Paul at Eph 1:17 refers to "the God of our Lord Jesus Christ" and at Eph 3:14 he says "I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." Which just goes to show that 1 Cor 8:6 is speaking of two persons. As Revelation (17:14) refers to the Lamb=Jesus as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and A.Paul says that Jesus will hand over the kingdom to his Father and subject himself to his Father then it is obvious that the title "King of Kings and Lord of Lords" as applied to Jesus is in the context of all those things that God put under the Son. (1 Cor 15:24-28).

Why not under us Humans, we are all gods.? That is why you say Jesus cannot be God.

[QUOTE=apostoli]
Just reciting the phrase "The Lord is Lords and king of Kings, meaning there is no Lord or King above him" as a mantra, doesn't make 1 Cor 15:24-28 go away. It just shows you prefer to ignore scripture which you doesn't fit your theories..

Really!
Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and His Redeemer the Lord of Hosts I Am the first, and I Am the last; and besides Me there is no God Isaiah 44:6. ("Me" and "l" is singular.

"I Am the first and the last" I Am He that liveth and was dead; and, behold, I Am alive forevermore, Amen;" Revelation 1:17,18

Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:24

He that descended is the same also that ascended up into heaven, ... that He might fill all things." Eph. 9:10.

"I and the father are One" One Lord and God

kind regards
John From Ebla

[apostoli]

It is a problem for your many godsIt isn't a problem for me, I don't believe in multiple persons who each existed without source and cause. Remember: I believe in one God the Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ/the Logos who was made flesh, died for our sins, was risen from the dead by his Father and ascended into heaven and who has been made God to us for a time, and when "cometh the end, when [Christ] shall deliver up the kingdom to God, [his] Father" and the Son will also subject himself unto his Father, the one who had subjected all things unto him". 1 Cor 15:24-28.
gods, gods and many gods You are yet to take hold of one God.Its a lot like you having spirit, spirit and many spirits. A name by any other name is the same. I believe in one God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one the bible speaks of.
When the word that was God became flesh it was still God John 1:1-3,10,14 "There is not one scipture that say's " the word that was "God" was no longer God when he became flesh"I agree! But based on your other posts you don't actually believe that Jesus Christ is the Logos, not that the "Word was made flesh". In the past you have said it merely tabernacled/tented in the flesh of the man Jesus Christ. Aka just like a demon might!.l have alsways said Jesus was the Memra of God.In the first instance, you have previously said that the Logos is the literal voice of God. In the next instance you say that Jesus is not just the voice, but God himself. Seems your opinion is in conflict with itself.
While the word was in the the flesh he always stated he was One with the Father and that he was subject to the Father.In my opinion: Jesus was/is the Logos who "was made flesh" and yes he said all things he taught were from the Father, he agreed with the Father and was in unity with him (not opposing God's will as the Pharisees etc did) and he all his power and authority came from the Father.Your opinon. well said.Fair call. But my opinion just happens to agree with the consistent and persistent message of the scriptures. Eg: A.John did not say "the voice of God tablenacled in the flesh." as you want but that "the Logos was made flesh, and dwelt/tabernacled/tented amoung us." A very big difference between your opinion and what A.John actually said.
John 13:9 "anyone who has seen me has seen the Father"As A.Paul has it Jesus is "the express image of [God's] person" Heb 1,3.Your haveing problems in the "Rev 5:7" Who do we See. Does God have a image?Nice attempt at avoid discussing those scriptures you have problems with.
As to answer your accusation concern our discussion on Rev 5:7, I'll just refer our viewers to the thread "JFE: Rev 5:7. One Lord God" and allow them to decide who is struggling to support his opinion using the scriptures.
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=65778
As for you question "Does God have a image?". Yes! But not in the way you want to construe. You need to do some study on the Greek words "eikon" and "charakter" both of which are translated "image" in the KJV. The New Jerusalem Bible renders Heb 1:3 as Jesus is "the perfect copy of [God's] nature" which is closer to the meaning of "charakter".
One God and One Lord as Paul said in (1Cor 8:6) The Lord is Lords and Cor 8 king of Kings, meaning there is no Lord or King above him.A.Paul at Eph 1:17 refers to "the God of our Lord Jesus Christ" and at Eph 3:14 he says "I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." Which just goes to show that 1 Cor 8:6 is speaking of two persons. As Revelation (17:14) refers to the Lamb=Jesus as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and A.Paul says that Jesus will hand over the kingdom to his Father and subject himself to his Father then it is obvious that the title "King of Kings and Lord of Lords" as applied to Jesus is in the context of all those things that God put under the Son. (1 Cor 15:24-28).Why not under us Humans, we are all gods? That is why you say Jesus cannot be God.OK. We'll just assume you ignore any scripture that refutes your opinion and try to introduce a deflection to avoid discussion. However, I will discuss your deflections...
JFE question: Why did not God subject all things under us Humans?
Answer: According to Genesis, God did subject all things on earth to mankind. But Adam stuffed up, putting his will before God. Then mankind invented religion (idols), kings etc and put all before God. Therefore, God sent his Son to redeem the world to bring all mankind back into a relationship with him.
JFE question: Why did not God subject all things under us Humans, we are all gods?
Answer: So Mormons believe but the scriptures only identify Moses and the Israelite judges and kings as appointed by God to act as if god (Jn 10:34; Ps 82:6) but like all men those gods lived by the flesh, died and remained dead. On the other hand, Jesus Christ, the God of Son, made flesh, lived by the spirit, obeyed the will of his Father, died and was resurrected and because of his humility and obedeniece to his Father's will, all things have been made subject to him (Phil 2:6-11).

Just reciting the phrase "The Lord is Lords and king of Kings, meaning there is no Lord or King above him" as a mantra, doesn't make 1 Cor 15:24-28 go away. It just shows you prefer to ignore scripture which you doesn't fit your theories..Really!Yes really! Your attempt to deflect from topic, just tells our viewers that you can't answer the witness of the scriptures. Repeating the last paragraph from my post (which you omitted): If you have an alternative explanation of how Jesus is King of Kings, Lord of Lord but subjects himself to the Father then I'm interested in knowing what it is.
Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and His Redeemer the Lord of Hosts I Am the first, and I Am the last; and besides Me there is no God Isaiah 44:6. ("Me" and "l" is singular. "I Am the first and the last" I Am He that liveth and was dead; and, behold, I Am alive forevermore, Amen;" Revelation 1:17,18. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:24. He that descended is the same also that ascended up into heaven, ... that He might fill all things." Eph. 9:10. "I and the father are One" One Lord and GodI've responded to your mantra numerous times. Repeating it in every post doesn't make the scriptures that refute your opinion go away. Repeating your mantra just shows to the viewers that you have no answer to those scriptures that contradict your opinion.

JFE, you repeat your mantra in this thread and several other threads. See my post #4 on this thread for my response to each part of your mantra. I note you have yet to respond to my comments.

Just out of curiousity: In one of your posts you said you are Hebrew. As your opinions don't conform with the wider Christian community, I was wondering if you are a member of the "Jesus Messiah Fellowship" or similar?

[John from Ebla]

Fair call. But my opinion just happens to agree with the consistent and persistent message of the scripturesNice attempt at avoid discussing those scriptures you have problems with.


Realy now. Isaiah 44:6 makes it clear "I am the first and last" There is no other God- Are you saying God does not know Apostoli does? When Revelation 1:17,18 says "1 am the first and last" Apostoli is saying this is another god, not God.

Well l believe the God that say's there is no other. You can keep your confusion "gods" "gods" and "gods."



As to answer your accusation concern our discussion on Rev 5:7, I'll just refer our viewers to the thread "JFE: Rev 5:7. One Lord God" and allow them to decide who is struggling to support his opinion using the scriptures..

Pleading for someone to come to your Aid?

Isaiah 44:6 makes it clear "I am the first and last" There is no other God- Are you saying God does not know Apostoli does? When Revelation 1:17,18 says "1 am the first and last" Apostoli is saying this is another god, not God.



As for you question "Does God have a image?". Yes! But not in the way you want to construe. You need to do some study on the Greek words "eikon" and "charakter" both of which are translated "image" in the KJV. The New Jerusalem Bible renders Heb 1:3 as Jesus is "the perfect copy of [God's] nature" which is closer to the meaning of "charakter"...

Here we go again, Do we see God or Not? In the other thread you started (JFE-Rev 5:7) you said we will see him that is on the throne. Make your mind.


OK. We'll just assume you ignore any scripture that refutes your opinion and try to introduce a deflection to avoid discussion. However, I will discuss your deflections...
JFE question: Why did not God subject all things under us Humans?"...

Angels are not subjected to us. Nature is not. death is Not? Is this your best refute.?
Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:24 He that descended is the same also that ascended up into heaven, ... that He might fill all things." Eph. 9:10.

"I and the father are One" One Lord and God



JFE question: Why did not God subject all things under us Humans, we are all gods? ?"...

Yes. But not God- and angels are not subjected to us. Nature is not. death is Not? Is this your best refute.?

Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:24 He that descended is the same also that ascended up into heaven, ... that He might fill all things." Eph. 9:10.

"I and the father are One" One Lord and God



Yes really! Your attempt to deflect from topic, just tells our viewers that you can't answer the witness of the scriptures. Repeating the last paragraph from my post (which you omitted): If you have an alternative explanation of how Jesus is King of Kings, Lord of Lord but subjects himself to the Father then I'm interested in knowing what it is. ?"...

No l am not. I Am the first, and I Am the last; and besides Me there is no God Isaiah 44:6. ("Me" and "l" is singular)

B]Revelation 1:17,18[/B]"l am the first and last' is another" You are making another.


Just out of curiousity: In one of your posts you said you are Hebrew. As your opinions don't conform with the wider Christian community, I was wondering if you are a member of the "Jesus Messiah Fellowship" or similar?

l am a Hebrew Christian- Jesus is the Lord God. No, l am not a member of "Jesus Messiah Fellowship" they advocate the Torah.

Kind Regards
John From Ebla

[apostoli]

[Fair call. But my opinion just happens to agree with the consistent and persistent message of the scriptures. Nice attempt at avoid discussing those scriptures you have problems with.Realy now. Isaiah 44:6 makes it clear "I am the first and last" There is no other God- Are you saying God does not know Apostoli does? When Revelation 1:17,18 says "1 am the first and last" Apostoli is saying this is another god, not God. Well l believe the God that say's there is no other. You can keep your confusion "gods" "gods" and "gods."You quote Isa 44:6 & Rev 1:17-18 out of context.

In Is 44:6, Isaiah specifically states that "there is no [other] God"; the same context is not found at Rev 1:17-18. The parallel to Isa 44:6 is found at both Revelation 21:6 & 22:13 where God is called "the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end" and God says at 21:7 "I will be his God, and he shall be my son." At no time do the scriptures say that we will become sons of Christ, in contrast A.Paul says "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ...having predestined us unto the adoption of sons by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" (Eph 1:3-5).

In Rev 1:17,18 we don't have a parallel context to Isa 44:6. The context of Rev 1:17 is in verse 18, Jesus being the first to be resurrected and the last sacrifice.

Your having problems in the "Rev 5:7" Who do we See. Does God have a image?Nice attempt at avoid discussing those scriptures you have problems with. As to answer your accusation concern our discussion on Rev 5:7, I'll just refer our viewers to the thread "JFE: Rev 5:7. One Lord God" and allow them to decide who is struggling to support his opinion using the scriptures.
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=65778 .

As for you question "Does God have a image?". Yes! But not in the way you want to construe. You need to do some study on the Greek words "eikon" and "charakter" both of which are translated "image" in the KJV. The New Jerusalem Bible renders Heb 1:3 as Jesus is "the perfect copy of [God's] nature" which is closer to the meaning of "charakter".Pleading for someone to come to your Aid?Your personal attacks just show you are feeling vulnerable and as you are want to make false witness, my best defense is to direct our viewers to our conversation in the thread mentioned and allow them to decide who is struggling to support his opinion using the scriptures..

Isaiah 44:6 makes it clear "I am the first and last" There is no other GodIndeed it does but Rev 1:17,18 is not a parallel scripture.
Are you saying God does not know Apostoli does?Definitely not! I respect God's witness by quoting the inspired scriptures in their context.
When Revelation 1:17,18 says "1 am the first and last"In Rev 1:17,18 we don't have a parallel context to Isa 44:6. The context of Rev 1:17 is in verse 18, Jesus being the first to be resurrected and the last sacrifice.
Apostoli is saying this is another god, not God.How so? It is not I that needs to take Rev 1:17,18 out of context to make him God, making the Son the Father and the Father the Son. I read Rev 17 in the context of 18 of the Son being the first to be resurrected and the last sacrifice.
Your having problems in the "Rev 5:7" Who do we See. Does God have a image?As for you question "Does God have a image?". Yes! But not in the way you want to construe. You need to do some study on the Greek words "eikon" and "charakter" both of which are translated "image" in the KJV. The New Jerusalem Bible renders Heb 1:3 as Jesus is "the perfect copy of [God's] nature" which is closer to the meaning of "charakter"...Here we go again, Do we see God or Not? In the other thread you started (JFE-Rev 5:7) you said we will see him that is on the throne. Make your mind.My confused friend, I've maintained in every post that Revelation uses figurative/symbolic language. It uses metaphors to designate future events. For instance: The OT sacrificial Lamb for atonement in Revelation becomes a metaphor for (the designation of) Jesus Christ who sacrificed himself for our sins. Revelation is about future events "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which will shortly come to pass." (Rev 1:1) The promise is that after the resurrection we will be in a direct relationship with God. As a Hebrew, you should be well aware that the "see his face" is eastern idiom to describe the relationship of the King and his servants.

In John's vision the words "and they shall see his face" occur at Rev 22:4, now contrast this with Rev 20:11 where it says "from his face the earth and heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them." Think on what "his face" means.
OK. We'll just assume you ignore any scripture that refutes your opinion and try to introduce a deflection to avoid discussion. However, I will discuss your deflections...
JFE question: Why did not God subject all things under us Humans?"...
Answer: According to Genesis, God did subject all things on earth to mankind. But Adam stuffed up, putting his will before God. Then mankind invented religion (idols), kings etc and put all before God. Therefore, God sent his Son to redeem the world to bring all mankind back into a relationship with him.Angels are not subjected to us. Nature is not. death is Not? Is this your best refute.?Angels reside in heaven not on earth. Death is a consequence not a thing. Nature? Hmm depends on what you mean by nature. Man does have the ability to change his environment. He has caused (intentionally or not) changes in the global weather patterns; a hole in the ozone layer, caused deserts to form, made species extinct, genetically modify plants, cloned animals, cultivated foods on nutrient poor soils, created forests, revegetated barren land etc etc etc Genesis 1:26 (KJV) says God said "Let [man] have dominion...over all the earth" not my words but God's!
JFE question: Why did not God subject all things under us Humans, we are all gods?
Answer: So Mormons believe but the scriptures only identify Moses and the Israelite judges and kings as appointed by God to act as if god (Jn 10:34; Ps 82:6) but like all men those gods lived by the flesh, died and remained dead. On the other hand, Jesus Christ, the God of Son, made flesh, lived by the spirit, obeyed the will of his Father, died and was resurrected and because of his humility and obedience to his Father's will, all things have been made subject to him (Phil 2:6-11).Yes. But not God- and angels are not subjected to us. Nature is not. death is Not? Is this your best refute.?I agree that God is not subject to man nor is he subject to Jesus. 1 Cor 15:27 says God has put all things under Jesus, excluding himself. My previous post related that "God did subject all things on earth to mankind". Genesis 1:26 (KJV) put it this way: "God said...let [man] have dominion...over all the earth" not my words but God's!
As for angels, nature, death see my comment above.

The rest of your post is just repetition of what you have said above. So, see above for my reply.

Just out of curiosity: In one of your posts you said you are Hebrew. As your opinions don't conform with the wider Christian community, I was wondering if you are a member of the "Jesus Messiah Fellowship" or similar?l am a Hebrew Christian- Jesus is the Lord God. No, l am not a member of "Jesus Messiah Fellowship" they advocate the Torah.Thanks for that bit of info.

[John from Ebla]

You quote Isa 44:6 & Rev 1:17-18 out of context..
Isaiah 44:6 makes it clear "I am the first and last" There is no other God- you saying God does not know Apostoli does? When Revelation 1:17,18 says "1 am the first and last" Apostoli is saying this is another god. Yes that is what you are doing- making another "first and last" and another "god" just as JW




In Rev 1:17,18 we don't have a parallel context to Isa 44:6. The context of Rev 1:17 is in verse 18, Jesus being the first to be resurrected and the last sacrifice...


Here we go again, you are making two first and last-and and another god.


Your personal attacks just show you are feeling vulnerable and as you are want to make false witness, my best defense is to direct our viewers to our conversation in the thread mentioned and allow them to decide who is struggling to support his opinion using the scriptures.....

What are you on about? You are making two first and last-and and another god- is that the truth of the scriptures, is there a chance you are the false witness? JW have the same as you "God" and "god" If Jesus is not God as per scriptures then what is he? another god? That is what you teach.


My confused friend, I've maintained in every post that Revelation uses figurative/symbolic language. It uses metaphors to designate future events. For instance: The OT sacrificial Lamb for atonement in Revelation becomes a metaphor for (the designation of) Jesus Christ who sacrificed himself for our sins. Revelation is about future events "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which will shortly come to pass." (Rev 1:1) The promise is that after the resurrection we will be in a direct relationship with God. As a Hebrew, you should be well aware that the "see his face" is eastern idiom to describe the relationship of the King and his servants. .....

As a Hebrew l know my tanankh better than you- left the lie of the rabbi and believe in the scriptures. All the patriarch called the Memra of the Lord, God, and John 1:1-3,10,14 does the same. Why would l want to believe your lie?


The rest of your post is just your bla bla bla of how you fabricate everything..


Kind regards
John From Ebla