JFE - Tim,Titus,Cor - One God & One Lord

[apostoli]

This thread is an attempt to focus on a "single topic" and is a continuation of Apostoli's and John from Elber's conversation on the threads 1="Why is the Trinity important?", 2="More Anti-Trin Argument" and 3="JFE: YHWH - " there is no W in Hebrew"" Apostoli is arguing from an orthodox view of the trinity. JBE (?)

The New Scofield Reference Bible (1967) commenting on Ex 34:6 notes: "It is significant that the first appearance of the name Jehovah in Scriptures follows the creation of man. It was God (Hebrew: Elohim) who said 'Let us make man in our image' (Gen 1:26) but when man is to fill the scene and become dominant over creation, it is the Lord God (Hebrew: Jehovah Elohim) who acts (Gen 2:4). This clearly indicates a special relation of Deity, in His Jehovah character, to man, and all scriptures emphasize this. Jehovah is distinctly the redemptive name of Deity." Keeping this in mind: we get a better understanding of A.Paul's words to Timothy (1 Tim 2:3-6) "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God, our Savior, who will have all men saved, and to come into the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all." Undoubtedly, you'll want to take issue with A.Paul and say I am making two saviors. If you want, raise that issue as another thread. For now, I will conclude by saying we are saved because of the will of God our Father and by the grace of his Son, Jesus Christ (1 Cor 8:6; Titus 3:4-7).You really do have a double standard. Please start another thread for what you wrote above.OK JFE, here is the new thread refute away. If you can....

[John from Ebla]

This thread is an attempt to focus on a "single topic" and is a continuation of Apostoli's and John from Elber's conversation on the threads 1="Why is the Trinity important?", 2="More Anti-Trin Argument" and 3="JFE: YHWH - " there is no W in Hebrew"" Apostoli is arguing from an orthodox view of the trinity. JBE (?)

OK JFE, here is the new thread refute away. If you can....


What is your point? What exactly do you want me to refute?

[John from Ebla]

This thread is an attempt to focus on a "single topic" and is a continuation of Apostoli's and John from Elber's conversation on the threads 1="Why is the Trinity important?", 2="More Anti-Trin Argument" and 3="JFE: YHWH - " there is no W in Hebrew"" Apostoli is arguing from an orthodox view of the trinity. JBE (?)

OK JFE, here is the new thread refute away. If you can....

Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and His Redeemer the Lord of Hosts I Am the first, and I Am the last; and besides Me there is no God Isaiah 44:6. ("Me" and "l" is singular.

"I Am the first and the last" I Am He that liveth and was dead; and, behold, I Am alive forevermore, Amen;" Revelation 1:17,18


Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:24

He that descended is the same also that ascended up into heaven, ... that He might fill all things." Eph. 9:10.

"I and the father are One" One Lord and God

Kind regards
John From Ebla

[apostoli]

What is your point? What exactly do you want me to refute?You asked me to start a new thread. The logical assumption is you disagreed with what I had written.

[apostoli]

Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and His Redeemer the Lord of Hosts I Am the first, and I Am the last; and besides Me there is no God Isaiah 44:6. ("Me" and "l" is singular.)The context is in verse 9. YHWH is referring to his position in regards to gods created by men. The Lord of Hosts is the only true God!

"I Am the first and the last" I Am He that liveth and was dead; and, behold, I Am alive forevermore, Amen;" Revelation 1:17,18In previous posts you say God did not die, only the flesh of the man Jesus died. Rev 1:18 has the one called "the first and the last" in verse 18 saying "I am he that lives, and was dead, I am alive for evermore. Compare Col 1:15-19.

Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:24And yet A.John says there is still room for 24 thrones, multitudes, beasties etc etc. In Rev and Jeremiah we have symbolic language.

If bothered to read Jer. 23:23-24 God is saying he is a personal God that knows all. "Am I a God at hand, says the YHWH, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret that I shall not see him?"

He that descended is the same also that ascended up into heaven, ... that He might fill all things." Eph. 9:10.Presume you are refering to John 3:13. In which case John 3:33 agrees with you "He that has received his testimony has set his seal to this God is true.

"I and the father are One" One Lord and GodIn which case and assuming God heard Jesus prayer we are included in your "Our Lord and God". John 17:20-23 "that they [that believe on me] maybe one even as we are one"

[John from Ebla]

The context is in verse 9. YHWH is referring to his position in regards to gods created by men. The Lord of Hosts is the only true God!

In previous posts you say God did not die, only the flesh of the man Jesus died. Rev 1:18 has the one called "the first and the last" in verse 18 saying "I am he that lives, and was dead, I am alive for evermore. Compare Col 1:15-19."

Oh dear me. Yes Jesus died. "I Am the first and the last" I Am He that liveth and was dead; and, behold, I Am alive forevermore, Amen;" Revelation 1:17,18

Only one "First and last" and he is God. I know, you have gods' and gods, and gods.

KInd regards
John From Ebla

[apostoli]

Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and His Redeemer the Lord of Hosts I Am the first, and I Am the last; and besides Me there is no God Isaiah 44:6. ("Me" and "l" is singular. "I Am the first and the last" I Am He that liveth and was dead; and, behold, I Am alive forevermore, Amen;" Revelation 1:17,18In previous posts you say God did not die, only the flesh of the man Jesus died. Rev 1:18 has the one called "the first and the last" in verse 18 saying "I am he that lives, and was dead, I am alive for evermore. Compare Col 1:15-19.Oh dear me. Yes Jesus died. "I Am the first and the last" I Am He that liveth and was dead; and, behold, I Am alive forevermore, Amen;" Revelation 1:17,18If the person speaking at Rev 1:17 is the same as the person speaking at Isa 44:6 then according to Rev 1:18 God died. In previous posts you told me God evacuated the the body of christ before he died, so there seems to be a contradiction in your theory.
Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and His Redeemer the Lord of Hosts I Am the first, and I Am the last; and besides Me there is no God Isaiah 44:6. ("Me" and "l" is singular.)The context is in verse 9. YHWH is referring to his position in regards to gods created by men. The Lord of Hosts is the only true God!.The context is in verse 9. YHWH is referring to his position in regards to gods created by men. The Lord of Hosts is the only true God!Only one "First and last" and he is God. I know, you have gods' and gods, and gods.I agree there is only one God, unoriginate, without source = the Father of Jesus Christ. You have said you are a Christian, and that Jesus was conceived of the holy Spirit, so I find it strange that deny that Jesus is the true Son of God.

[John from Ebla]

If the person speaking at Rev 1:17 is the same as the person speaking at Isa 44:6 then according to Rev 1:18 God died. In previous posts you told me God evacuated the the body of christ before he died, so there seems to be a contradiction in your theory.
I agree there is only one God, unoriginate, without source = the Father of Jesus Christ. You have said you are a Christian, and that Jesus was conceived of the holy Spirit, so I find it strange that deny that Jesus is the true Son of God.

Your so desperate- The Old God cannot die argument. Body soul and spirit are all One. Your soul and spirit does not Die. Matthew 10:28 says, "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Isaiah 44:6 makes it clear "I am the first and last" There is no other God- Are you saying God does not know Apostoli does? When Revelation 1:17,18 says "1 am the first and last" Apostoli is saying this is another god, not God

Kind regards
john From Ebla

[apostoli]

In previous posts you say God did not die, only the flesh of the man Jesus died. Rev 1:18 has the one called "the first and the last" in verse 18 saying "I am he that lives, and was dead, I am alive for evermore. Compare Col 1:15-19."Oh dear me. Yes Jesus died. "I Am the first and the last" I Am He that lives and was dead; and, behold, I Am alive forevermore, Amen;" Revelation 1:17,18 Only one "First and last" and he is God.

Your so desperate- The Old God cannot die argument. Body soul and spirit are all One. Your soul and spirit does not Die. Matthew 10:28 says, "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."My thoughts were not on the "God died" argument, but on previous posts where you said God only tablenacled in the man Jesus' body. Which implies Jesus was only possessed by God in the same was a demon posses someone. On the thread "JFE - John 17:21-23 - One Lord God" you say in your post #2 "Jesus was fully Human and Fully God" yet on the thread "Why is the trinity important? " you said "I only know that "only begotten son" ( monogenes) is applied to his human birth, in the same sense as it applies to Isaac, begotten by Abraham. Isaac, the UNIQUE and ONE OF A KIND son of Abraham- he was the "son of promise" and Ishmael was not. That certainly made Isaac the only unique and special. (monogenes) son. The same applies to the human side of Jesus- the only unique and special son of God, fully human [with] God nature. (God was in Christ)." Elsewhere you have said that Jesus is the name of the flesh thing, the man in whom the holy spirit tabernacle (possessed). Elsewhere you imply that the spirit left Jesus before he died. On the sum of your posts, it seems you do not believe Jesus is God!

As Rev 1:17,18 is in reference to Jesus, then the sum of your previous posts says you don't really accept Rev 1:17 as applying to God but to his Son. If you accept Rev 1:17 as applying to Jesus, then you make the Son of God an additional God to the Father.
Only one "First and last" and he is God.In the context of Is 44:6 I agree with you 100%. In Isaiah it is specifically stated that "there is no [other] God". The parallel to Isa 44:6 is found at both Revelation 21:6 & 22:13 where God is called "the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end" and God says at 21:7 "I will be his God, and he shall be my son." At no time do the scriptures say that we will become sons of Christ, in contrast A.Paul says "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ...having predestined us unto the adoption of sons by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" (Eph 1:3-5).

In Rev 1:17,18 we don't have a parallel context to Isa 44:6. The context of Rev 1:17 is in verse 18, Jesus being the first to be resurrected and the last sacrifice.
Apostoli is saying this is another god, not GodTo the contrary it is you, via the sum of your posts (see above) that make the Son of God another God additional to the Father (see above).

[John from Ebla]

My thoughts were not on the "God died" argument, but on previous posts where you said God only tablenacled in the man Jesus' body. Which implies Jesus was only possessed by God in the same was a demon posses someone. On the thread "JFE - John 17:21-23 - One Lord God" you say in your post #2 "Jesus was fully Human and Fully God" yet on the thread "Why is the trinity important? " you said "I only know that "only begotten son" ( monogenes) is applied to his human birth, in the same sense as it applies to Isaac, begotten by Abraham. Isaac, the UNIQUE and ONE OF A KIND son of Abraham- he was the "son of promise" and Ishmael was not. That certainly made Isaac the only unique and special. (monogenes) son. The same applies to the human side of Jesus- the only unique and special son of God, fully human [with] God nature. (God was in Christ)." Elsewhere you have said that Jesus is the name of the flesh thing, the man in whom the holy spirit tabernacle (possessed). Elsewhere you imply that the spirit left Jesus before he died. On the sum of your posts, it seems you do not believe Jesus is God!

As Rev 1:17,18 is in reference to Jesus, then the sum of your previous posts says you don't really accept Rev 1:17 as applying to God but to his Son. If you accept Rev 1:17 as applying to Jesus, then you make the Son of God an additional God to the Father.
In the context of Is 44:6 I agree with you 100%. In Isaiah it is specifically stated that "there is no [other] God". The parallel to Isa 44:6 is found at both Revelation 21:6 & 22:13 where God is called "the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end" and God says at 21:7 "I will be his God, and he shall be my son." At no time do the scriptures say that we will become sons of Christ, in contrast A.Paul says "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ...having predestined us unto the adoption of sons by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will" (Eph 1:3-5).

In Rev 1:17,18 we don't have a parallel context to Isa 44:6. The context of Rev 1:17 is in verse 18, Jesus being the first to be resurrected and the last sacrifice.
To the contrary it is you, via the sum of your posts (see above) that make the Son of God another God additional to the Father (see above).

Good for you.

[apostoli]

Good for you.Thankyou for your blessing.