Why are so many CHRISTIAN Women converting to Islam ?

[Proud_Syrian]

According to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.

In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why?

It is Clear why Christians are converting.

1. Christian Scientists are declaring the Koran is from God. Visit Here for Christian and atheist Scientists who convert to Islam and why:
http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch13.html

2. The Christian Bishops and Priests are admitting the Bible has tensions.
http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch2.1.html

3. Jesus is a Muslim: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html

The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?
Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research.

1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}

2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49}

3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in
church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says
Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}

4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as
an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The
Koran does Not have Biblical double standards
{ Qur'an 30:21}

5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not
Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men
do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this
male greediness { Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects
All.

6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3}
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only
under certain situations (with the Wife's
permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One
Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman
the Right to Choose who to Marry.

7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not
pledged to be married and rapes her and they are
discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty
shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he
has violated her. He can never divorce her as long
as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}

One must ask a simple question here, who is
really punished, the man who raped the woman or
the woman who was raped? According to the
Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life
with the man who Raped You.

The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book
86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is
essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the
marriage)".

Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the
Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?

8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in
Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the
chance of rape, (God Forbid), see statistic link
below.

9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a
100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.

10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them
the human right to reach for the sky. There have been
Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries,
but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the
men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming
Presidents in predominately Christian countries,
while the Muslim countries have voted for and
elected Female Presidents.

Here is a list of previous Female Muslim leaders:

Khadija bint Khuwaylid
Aishah bint Abu Bakr
Fatimah bint Muhammad
Barakah
Ramlah bint Abu Sufyan
Rumaysa bint Milhan
Umm Salamah
Asma bint Abu Bakr
Zaynab al-Ghazali
Maryum Jameelah


The comparison goes on and on, to hear from some of these Converts, including Nuns, and Many Famous People, visit here;
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/newmuslims/

For more information and Statistics, visit here; http://www.jannah.org/sisters/

This is Dedicated to Past, Present, and Future Muslim Sisters, Family and Friends, to the Devil who prefers slander and hype over facts. Peace and Blessings upon All.

[dizzle]

Hey Proud Syrian it is apparent you are new here (welcome), but perhaps you need to review the rules.

1. We do not allow argument by weblink

2. It is apparent you did not write this piece so we require that the source be clearly disclosed. If you do not provide this information we will ahve to delete it for reasons of copyright consideration

3. You brought up some great points, but too many for one thread. Please focus in on a few of them for discussion otherwise it is simply stacking and not conducive to conversation.

Thanks. If you need any asssitance with what is allowed or not, please feel free to PM me.

[Ric]

:spam:

[dizzle]

Proud Syrian perhaps you would like to comment on the cover article we are running on the excelent ministry Answering Islam? If so, please go to the front page and post it on that thread.

[Exmo-Robertson]

I don't know what you've been smoking but to claim that women have it better in Islam is total BS. Let's start with that wonderful practice of female circumcision where they hold down 9yr old girls and mutilate them to make sure they never have any real joy in life through their body. Or how about the areas where women are force to cover every inch of their body except for their eyes in fear that some Muslim man may get horny (This by the way tells me a lot about the ability of Muslim men to be able to control themselves.) That's true enlightenment. Let's not also forget the wonderful way a single woman is treated if it is found out she isn't a virgin, any guy can have her, wheither she wants too or not.

And I love this statement:

"6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3}
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only
under certain situations (with the Wife's
permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One
Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman
the Right to Choose who to Marry. "

Do you really want us to believe that the women just freely give that consent? No one is fooled by such statement. Yep the woman gives consent after the husband beats her enough to get it. It's also funny that you think the limit of 4 is a better system of Polygamy then what the old prophets did. Yet today with your better system, where do we find polygamy being legally practiced? In Christian nations? Nope, Islamic ones.

You ask:
"In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why?"

Because there's a sucker born every minute.

By the way I have a wonderful video of a woman in Iran being shot to death in the middle of a crowd in broad daylight because she commited adulty. Oh yeh, the guy she committed adulty with was let go. Another sign of your better system.

[dizzle]

1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}



Okay, let me just for sake of argument grant your logic here. The Bible is bad for women because it (allegedly) places the blame on the woman while the Koran shows it was the man. So, then, is the Koran anti-male? By following this faulty logic we would have to say so.....


(by the way the Bible places more blame on the man who was not deceived but willfully disobeyed)

[Exmo-Robertson]

Today @ 05:23 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=153802#post153802)
Proud_Syrian:

3. Jesus is a Muslim: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html

Sorry, but Jesus was a Jew.

Today @ 05:23 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=153802#post153802)
Proud_Syrian:

The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?
Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research.

..."7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not
pledged to be married and rapes her and they are
discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty
shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he
has violated her. He can never divorce her as long
as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}

"One must ask a simple question here, who is
really punished, the man who raped the woman or
the woman who was raped? According to the
Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life
with the man who Raped You."

Do you really see this as a big problem in Christian nations todays? Can you give us an example of where this is enforced?

Today @ 05:23 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=153802#post153802)
Proud_Syrian:

Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the
Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?

Christian by far, I want to know that my wife can have the ability to enjoy the marital bed as much as I do, I don't want a wife who has been butchered by her parents. I also want a wife who knows she can enjoy having sex with her husband just because they enjoy it, not just to have babies. I want a wife that is a whole woman, a complete woman, a sexy woman and who doesn't have to hide her sexiness as if it was something to be ashamed of. God made women and he made them beautiful, Islam wants the women to hide their light and wants them to be ashamed of their light. A Godly society forces the man to control himself and to be responsible for his own actions, it doesn't punish women for what some pervert may or may not do.

Today @ 05:23 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=153802#post153802)
Proud_Syrian:

8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in
Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the
chance of rape, (God Forbid), see statistic link
below.

And in Christian nations the choice is left up to the woman, not the nation and it's laws.

[Proud_Syrian]

Today @ 06:02 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=153820#post153820)
Dee Dee Warren:

Proud Syrian perhaps you would like to comment on the cover article we are running on the excelent ministry Answering Islam? If so, please go to the front page and post it on that thread.

This is the answer:

http://www.answering-christianity.com

[Proud_Syrian]

[QUOTE]Today @ 06:24 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=153824#post153824)
Exmo-Robertson:

I don't know what you've been smoking but to claim that women have it better in Islam is total BS. Let's start with that wonderful practice of female circumcision
================================

But female circumcision is NOT allowed in islam, it is cultural habits practiced mainly in Africa.

[Piebald]

http://www.answering-christianity.com

That's already been answered by www.Answering-Islam.org (in case you're wondering)

[Jaltus]

Please argue by posting a response, not by posting links. The next time you post a link instead of a response, ProudSyrian, your post will be deleted. Please follow the rules of TWeb. Please edit or restate your other posts with proper argumentation instead of posting links.

[Exmo-Robertson]

From: http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/

The Status of Women

There is no Qur´anic distinction between the Muslim and the non-Muslim woman in terms of her status as a biological social being since men are, on principle, in charge of women, and the male is not like the female (Sura Al Imran 3:36). One can understand the prevailing mentality at the time with the aid of the Qur´anic criticisms of the habits of the Meccan idolaters: "Have you considered al-Lat and al-Uzza, and Manat the third, the other? What, have you males, and He females? That were then an unjust division!" (Sura al-Najm 53:19-22). The Qur´an, which condemns the Arab's live burial of girls, conveys to us, at the same time, the prevailing conception of the woman at that time: "And when any of them is given the good tidings of a girl, his face is darkened and he chokes inwardly, as he hides him from the people because of the evil of the good tidings that have been given unto him, whether he shall preserve it in humiliation, or trample it into the dust" (Sura al-Nahl 16:48,59).

If we accept what the Qur´an said about the woman in the pre-Islamic era and what the Muslim historians recorded (trying their best to prove that Islam improved the position of the woman and promoted her from the bottom of the pit to an honourable life), we must admit that Islam was unable to realise a reformation in this arena, for the simple reason that the same conceptions of women still persist in most Islamic countries today. One of the most important reasons for this phenomenon was the pragmatic approach that Muhammad followed, which adopted even the pre-Islamic (Jahili) traditions(1) to uphold his own cause. His ultimate goal was not to establish a new moral code, but to achieve a final triumph for the Shahada, which states, "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah," and to force the Bedouins to recognise Allah's sovereignty over all the gods.

As mentioned above, the most important Qur´anic verse the jurists cite as proof of the claim that women are inferior to men is: "Men are the managers of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property" (Sura al-Nisa´ 4:34). Al-Tabari says, "By this God (may He be highly praised) means that men are in charge of their women in chastising and restraining them regarding their obligations for God and themselves."(2) He makes further comments, which we will cite: "Ibn Abbas narrated that he said, [Men] are commanders and [the woman] has to obey him in all that God commands her to obey him. Obedience to man is being good to his family." Al-Dhahhak narrated: "Man is in charge of the woman commanding her to obey God. If she refuses, he has [the right] to give her a mild beating, and he had the advantage over her on account of what he provides for her and what he earns." Al-Suddi said, "They should restrain and discipline them."(3)

As to the reason why this verse was given, it is said that a man struck a woman, and she came to the Prophet seeking punishment. The prophet passed his judgment between them, and this verse was revealed, "And hasten not with the Qur´an ere its revelation is accomplished unto you" (Sura Ta Ha 20:114). The verse "Men are the managers of women" (Sura al-Nisa´ 4:34) was also revealed.(4) Ibn Abbas says in a tradition that by "for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another," (Sura al-Nisa´ 4:34) the Qur´an meant that "God preferred men to women by the former's [sound] mind, dividing of the portions in the booty and inheritance."(5)

Muhammad `Abduh "the Reformer" (1905-1949), who was known for his hostile attitude toward blind tradition, has discovered new aspects of man's superiority over women in this verse: "This superiority is based on two factors; the one has to do with nature, while the other has to do with earning. The natural one consists in the fact that man's disposition is stronger, more accomplished, complete, and beautiful. Perhaps it strikes you as odd that man is more beautiful than woman. Beauty has to do with the completeness and perfection of natural disposition. As far as his living body, man is nothing more than an animal, for the physical nature of both is the same. We see the males of all animals more accomplished and more beautiful than the females, such as you see in the rooster and the hen, the ram and the ewe, and the lion and the lioness. The hair of the beard and the moustache is of the characteristics of the perfection and beauty of man's nature, therefore the hairless man is considered imperfect in nature and wishes he could find a medicine that would cause his hair to grow, even if he were used to shaving his beard. In consequence of this, men are strong in character [disposition], perfect in nature, sound in mind, and of sound judgement in the foundation and end of everything. Doctors and scientists say, 'Sound in body, sound in mind.' It follows then that men are perfect in tasks having to do with earning, for they are more capable of earning a living, inventing, and tackling affairs of everyday life. For this reason they have been commanded to stand above women, protect them, and to carry the onus of general presidency in the milieu of the domestic life of the family. For it is vital that every society should have a president to whom people ought to refer in the standardisation of public welfare."(6)

Abbas Mahmud al-Aqqad (1889-1964), one of the most renowned Arab men of letters in the twentieth century, sets an enviable record in his attacks on women. He says, "Woman has been engaged in preparing food since mankind started cooking in pre-historic times. She has learned it since childhood in the dwelling-places of the family or the tribe. She likes food and craves for it. Yet after she inherited this occupation for thousands of years, she is still not as good at it as the man who dedicates a few years to it. She keeps up with him neither in the high quality of well-known dishes nor in innovating new varieties of improved ones. She is unable to manage a kitchen in which several females and males work together. The same goes for the craft of embroidery and tailoring, which are among the old-time crafts women practised at home. Women rely on men to make their clothing rather than on themselves." Women, as al-Aqqad claims, have no part in knowledge or scientific thinking, even the well-known women in the field of science could not attain any success but for the support and guidance of the men, "The name of Madame Curie is the first name that is mentioned by those who maintain full equality of the two sexes. Even if it is true that this lady matches first class male scientists, this will always remain an undeniably rare exception. The truth about this specific lady keeps her from being reckoned among the exceptional cases in scientific researches, since she did not work apart from her husband and since her work was neither concerned with invention nor with innovation."(7) As to hypocrisy and double-dealing, these are two inherent characteristics of women: "Female hypocrisy, which can be attributed to women especially, is due to a certain weakness in womanhood that she abides by in every society, and is not imposed on her by manners or laws. She does not part company with it by choice or by force- she may even refuse to do so if the choice was hers... There is a major difference between man and women in sexual intercourse- in most days of her period the sexual desire is separated from the reproduction instinct, whereas the sexual desire for man is never an amusement."(8)

This al-Aqqad who is viewed by many people in the east and the west as a genius, believes that woman is a necessary evil, and that she does not possess any talent or virtue at all. "There are none among the estimable ethics of women that are more characteristic of and natural to her femininity than these three qualities: bashfulness, compassion, and cleanliness. She depends on these in her nature or in man's nature. This should have been rather her practice in all the other qualities that men mastered from old... The inborn compassion is not fit for evaluating woman's mercy, since it has to do with what the psychic forces and the power of conscience enjoin on her. It is the comparison between women's and man's compassion for the children of others that is fit as a standard of evaluation. Man could be seen showing compassion for his step-children as much as he does his own, treating them equally even if it were out of courtesy and consideration. Woman, however, behaves differently in her treatment of her step-children; the children sometimes do not escape torture, malevolence, deliberate humiliation, and harm."(9) "The primary point of reference regarding morals with women is sexual restraint, which is an instinct that the female animals have in common, and is not a willful act that distinguishes mankind in particular. There are worlds of difference between this sort of sexual restraint and the virtue of bashfulness, which is regarded as a human moral virtue."(10)

Regarding the advantages man has over women, Ahmad Shalabi says, "He is taller than she, his bones are bigger, and she weighs less than he does. His muscles are stronger, his brain is bigger than hers, and likewise his heart."(11) The sayings of Muhammad concerning women that could be culled from the Hadith do not speak in her favour. There are traditions indicating that Muhammad describes women as though they were deficient in intelligence and understanding. Abu Sa`id al-Jundi narrated: Once the Messenger of God went out to a prayer place to offer the prayer of Greater Bairam or a Lesser Bairam. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you [women]." They asked, "Why is it so, Messenger of God?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "What is deficient in our intelligence and religion, Messenger of God?" He answered, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in your intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. "This is the deficiency in your religion," he said.(12)

In Islamic theological sources, it is put forward as an evidence of the women's deficient intelligence that there is none among them who was known for being knowledgeable or a genius. "As to the deficiency of intelligence, it is known that women have rarely minds as good as men. Perfection and excellence are rarely and exceptionally found among them. Women of reasoning and good discretion are very few in number. Men of this quality, however, are countless."(13) The scholastic expert of fiqh, who showed this magnificent proof of the deficiency of women's minds, could have found the main reason for this in the Hadith of Muhammad: "Do not let [women] into all of the rooms, and do not teach them how to write. Teach them to spin and recite Sura al-Nur."(14) Or "Do not let your women live in rooms, do not teach them how to write, and seek assistance against them. Constantly tell them 'No', because 'Yes' tempts them to ask a lot."(15)

One who studies the sayings of Muhammad pertaining to women cannot help but question why women were created. "One woman, of 99 women, is in heaven, and the rest of them are in Fire."(16) "Fire has been created for the senseless, the women, except for the one who obeyed her husband."(17) "Men perish when they obey women."(18) "Men are in a good state as long as they do not obey women."(19)

Muhammad gives us another reason why men should fear and beware of women: "Beware of women; the first temptation among the Children of Israel was caused by them;"(20) "I fear no temptation that would befall my people but for the temptation of women and wine;"(21) and "But for the woman, man could have entered paradise."(22)

The woman has no right to behave as though she possesses any authority or influence over her husband, for Muhammad "forbade women to talk except by leave of their husbands."(23) Also "Women are not allowed to go out except out of necessity, but for the occasion of the two feasts: The Greater Bairam and the Lesser Bairam. They are also not allowed to walk down the roads, but keep to the edges of the street."(24) "Women are not allowed to use the middle of the road."(25) "Women are not to be greeted nor to greet."(26) "A believing woman is the same among women as a white-footed raven among the ravens. Fire has been created for the senseless, and women are the most senseless of all."(27) If the woman wanted to clear herself of this charge, she had to serve her husband.(28)

In another tradition Muhammad described women as "unclean" creatures. In a Hadith, Muhammad says, "Three things corrupt prayer: Women, dogs, and donkeys."(29) "The Messenger of God said, 'A man's prayer is interrupted if a donkey, black dogs, and women pass by him nearby.' So I said, 'What difference is there between the red one, the yellow one, and the white one?' He said, 'My brother, I asked the Messenger of God just as you asked me. He said, "The black dog is a devil." ' "(30) In a another tradition given by Ibn Abbas, the fire-worshipper, the Jew, and the pig are listed alongside the woman as things that corrupt prayer. The prayer of a Muslim is corrupted if "they pass by him as far as a rock could be thrown."(31)

There are several sayings in which Muhammad reduced women to the level of animals. "Woman is a vile beast,"(32) and "I think that women were created for nothing but evil."(33) It seems that the woman as a source of mischief and evil omen is a rooted concept in Muhammad's mind. This anti-female concept, which goes back to the Jewish traditions,(34) accompanies us in all books of Hadith: "Bad omen is in three things: horses, woman, and the home."(35)

"'The woman has two things to cover her: the grave and marriage.' It was asked, 'Which of them is better?' He said, 'The grave.' "(36)

After all these traditions and stories, which make up a small part of the copious Islamic traditions about women, the words of Mahmud Shaltut seem to be pure mockery. He says about the status of women in Islam, "It is a status that the woman had not enjoyed in any divine law, nor in any society that people set up for themselves."(37) He adds, "Islam has granted women all that is good, and protected her from all that is evil. The only thing it denied her was the liberty that false culture [namely, the western culture] has pushed her into. That liberty causes the western woman, whenever she retreats to her human conscience, to weep tears of blood over her forfeited respect, misused honour, and lost happiness."(38)

1.The religious duty of Pilgrimage with its rites, for example, were pre-Islamic traditions that Muhammad adopted and moulded into an Islamic form (Theodor Nöldeke, Geschichte des Korans (Leipzig, 1909), vol.1., p.147. "Ka`ba", Shorter Encyclopaedia of Islam (Leiden, 1974), p.192. W.M. Watt, Introduction to the Qur'an (Edinburgh, 1990), p.163f).
2. Muhammad Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, Jami` al-bayan `an ta'wil al-Qur'an, ed. Mahmud Muhammad Shakir (Cairo, 1968), 5:57.
3. ibid. 5:58.
4. ibid. Also: "There might be among them someone endowed with (sound) mind and opinion, just as there might be among infants and boys. Yet it is very unlikely" (Abu Mansur al-Tha`alibi, Tuhfat al-wuzara' (Baghdad, 1977), p.93).
5. `Ala' al-Din `Ali Ibn Muhammad al-Khazin, Lubab al-ta'wil fi Ma`ani al-tafsir, 2:344. Abu Ja`far Muhammad Ibn al-Hasan al-Tusi says that man's superiority [or charge] over woman is manifest in his intelligence, understanding, and his disciplining her (al-Tibyan 3:189).
6. al-Zirikli, al-A`lam (Beirut, 1910), 6:252-253.
7. Muhammad Rashid Ridha, al-Manar, 5:57. For more arguments, review Ridha's answer to those who support women's rights: Nida li al-jins al-latif, p.17-32.
8. Abbas Mahmud al-Aqqad, al-Mar'a fi al-Qur'an, p.15,16. Muhammad Kurd `Ali stated similar thoughts before al-Aqqad, "Although the west has given women complete freedom in educated circles, there is no accomplished poetess, eloquent writer, or a clever doctor among them until now" (quoted by `Abd al-Wadud Shalabi, al-Islam, p.233 from al-Islam wa al-hadhara al-garbiyya 1:96).
9. Abbas Mahmud al-Aqqad, al-Mar'a fi al-Qur'an, p.24.
10. ibid. p.38.
11. `Abd al-Wadud Shalabi, al-Islam, p.42.
12. al-Bukhari, Haidh 6; Muslim, Iman 132; Abu Dawud, Sunna 15; al-Tirmidsi, Iman 6; Sunan Ibn Maja, Fitan 19; Ahmad Ibn Hanbal 2:67.
13. al-Sharif al-Murtadha, Rasa'il (Beirut, n.d.), 3:123.
14. `Ala' al-Din Muttaqi al-Hindi, Kanzu al-`ummal (Haidarabad, 1974), 22:10.
15. Ibn Qutaiba, `Uyun al-akhbar (Cairo, 1934-1949), 4:78.
16. Kanzu al-`ummal, 22:10.
17. ibid. 22:12.
18. ibid. 21:205.
19. ibid. 21:205.
20. Nihayat al-`arab (Beirut, n.d.), 2:198.
21. Kanzu al-`ummal.
22. ibid.
23. ibid, 22:7.
24. ibid.
25. ibid.
26. ibid.
27. Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Musnad (Cairo, n.d.), 4:197,205. Kanzu al-`ummal, 22:11.
28. Kanzu al-`ummal, 22:12.
29. Muslim, Salat 265; Abu Dawud, Salat 109; al-Tirmidsi, Salat 136, Said 16; al-Nasa'i, Qibla 7; Ibn Maja, Iqama 38; Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, 5:139,151,156,158,160; 6:157,280. It seems that `A'isha did not like this saying, and she was persuaded that this fits the imaginations of men rather than the way Muhammad used to speak. She said, "How wicked of you to make us equal to the donkeys and the dogs! I used to sleep in front of the Messenger of God, and my legs were opposite his Qibla. And in prostration he pushed my legs and I withdrew them" (Abu Dawud, Salat 109; al-Bukhari, Salat 99; Muslim, Salat 271; Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, 6:44,45,230,266).
30. Abu Dawud, Salat 109; the Hadiths saying that the black dog is a devil are in Muslim, Salat 265; Abu Dawud, Salat 109; al-Tirmidsi, Salat 136, Said 16; al-Nisa'i, Qibla 7; Ibn Maja, Iqama 38; Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, 5:149,151,156,158,160; 6:157,280.
31. Abu Dawud, Salat 109.
32. Muslim, Salat 269.
33. Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, 6:86.
34. William E.H. Lecky, History of European Morals (London, 1869), vol. 2, p.301.
35. al-Bukhari, Jihad 47, Nikah 17, Tibb 43; Muslim, Salam 115-120; Abu Dawud, Tibb 24; al-Tirmidsi, Adab 58; al-Nasa'i, Khail 5; Ibn Maja, Nikah 55; al-Muwatta', Isti'dsan 22; Ahmad Ibn Hanbal 8:36,115,126.
36. Kanzu al-`ummal, 22:12.
37. Mahmud Shaltut, al-Islam `aqida wa shari`a, p.218.
38. ibid. p.219.

[Ric]

Phew! That about summed it up!
Today @ 06:53 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=154029#post154029)
Exmo-Robertson:

[Exmo-Robertson]

Because of your post, I can now post this story found at: http://www.themodernreligion.com/ugly/ugly_women.htm


In the name of Islam - Women are being abused, even mutilated
by Ann Louise Bardach
Readers' Digest, March 1994
In April 1991, a 22-year-old Saudi woman arrived at Montreal's Mirabel Airport and requested asylum on the ground of "gender-related persecution." She told authorities that if Canada forced her to return to Saudi Arabia, her life would be in danger. Her crime? Walking outside her home without being enveloped from head to toe in a black chador.

Initially, the woman's request was rejected. Canadian officials were apparently reluctant to believe that women in Saudi Arabia today live as third-class citizens. In fact, they do: Saudi women are not allowed to drive, to marry whom they want or to travel without written permission from a male guardian, and they are the target of frequent searches by the Mutawwai'in, dreaded religious police.

Following an outcry, Canada finally granted the woman asylum. However, some people feared that the decision would lead to an influx of women asylum-seekers. One official commented, "There are one billion Muslims in the world, so we're talking hypothetically about 500 million who might want out."

As Islamic fundamentalists seize the social agenda of one country after another, women have been the greatest sufferers. By selectively interpreting the Koran, Hadith (the sayings of the Prophet) and Shariah (a code of religious law), regimes in certain Muslim countries have severely restricted the rights of women. Many have legalised polygamy and repudiation - whereby a man divorces his wife simply by announcing, "I divorce you." At the same time they have denied women the right to divorce, child custody and community property.

Under the banner of Islam, (although it is not Islamic in origin) female circumcision, more accurately defined at female genital mutilation (F.G.M.) has flourished in many countries. Algerian Marie-Aimee Helie-Lucas, founder of the French-based advocacy group Women Living Under Islamic Laws, likens the past decade for Muslim women to the Dark Ages. She rattles off some of the most heinous developments regarding women in the Muslim world: -

In 1990, Iraq issued a decree effectively allowing women to kill their wives, daughters or sisters for adultery. -

In Pakistan, current penal laws stipulate stoning to death as the maximum penalty for murder. Unlike man, however, an accused woman is not allowed to testify on her own behalf. Women who claim to have been raped are often imprisoned for committing 'zina', sex outside marriage. In maximum-sentence rape cases, women's testimonies carry no weight. They must produce four adult, pious, male Muslims who actually witnessed the crime. An estimated 2000 women languish in Pakistani jails under ordinances governing such crimes as 'zina'. -

In certain parts of the Muslim world, "honor killings" - in wish(which?) a father kills a wife or daughter believed to have dishonoured a family - are not uncommon.

"Search for Identity." The issue is not Islam - the world's fastest growing religion - but extremist fundamentalism, which uses Islam as a billy club. "In Islam, the communion is direct between God and the individual," says Benazir Bhutto, Prime Minister of Pakistan. "But throughout the Muslim world, you have clerics saying that Muslims don't know what's good for them. They say a woman has to look down at the floor. But the Prophet said the best veils is the veil in the eyes."

According to Fatima Mernissi, a Koranic scholar and Moroccan sociologist specialising in women's issues and Islam, the Prophet Mohammed revolutionized life for women in the 7th century - granting them access to the mosque, full participation in public affairs and the right to inherit property. As for veiling, the Koran makes no requirement that women veil their faces, but suggests modesty for both men and women.

The success of fundamentalism, says Bhutto, is twofold. First, it springs from the "search for identity in an increasingly global village where all the messages from the Christian West. It is a reaction to preserve one's culture when other cultures have dominance." Second, she says, it was created to keep communists at bay. "Political parties largely banned," she says. "The mosque was allowed to become a place where people could gather, and the clerics became very powerful. They started a new doctrine, where they knew what was best for everybody else."

"Islamic fundamentalism is a political movement, not a religious movement," Helie-Lucas declares. "It's the extreme right wing using religion as a cover. It is the fascism of today."

Last May, the World Health Organisation adopted a resolution sponsored by several African countries calling for the elimination of female genital mutilation, which is performed on an estimated two million children each year, ranging in age from infancy to adolescence.

Although F.G.M. is practised in both Islamic and non-Islamic cultures, many African Muslim communities that do perform the procedure cite religion as a reason. F.G.M. takes one of the three forms. Sunna circumcision - the mildest form is the removal of all or part of the clitoris. Excision is the cutting away of the clitoris and all or part of the inner vaginal lips. Infibulation involves the removal of the clitoris, the inner vaginal lips and part of the outer vaginal lips, followed by the sewing together of the two sides of the vulva, leaving only a pea-size opening for urine and blood.

Because of the crude, unhygienic tools used by practitioners, it is not uncommon for a child to develop tetanus or septicemia. Many females who undergo the procedure develop secondary infections or painful, lifelong medical problems.

F.G.M. is practiced in more than 30 countries, primarily through the central belt of Africa, from Senegal to Somalia and as far north as Egypt. Despite the belief that it is a religious duty, in fact, the Koran offers no encouragement of the procedure. (Dana-This is not true-I'll show that in another post)

Arrange Marriages. Catherine Hogan, who heads the Washington Metropolitan Alliance against Female Genital Mutilation, believes that F.G.M. is being performed in the United States. A major problem, she says, is that no one advises African refugees against it when they enter the country. In fact, there is no state or federal law that specifically bans the practice. "The U.S. Immigration and Naturalisation Service tells all Muslim men that polygamy is illegal here," says Hogan, "but says nothing to women about F.G.M. How can you charge someone with a crime if there isn't even a law against it, and you never warned them?

But not all American doctors, or even all feminists, stand united against the practice. A few argue that the decision to be re-sutured after pregnancy should be left to the woman herself.

"It doesn't matter that the patient wants it done," counters Dr. Joseph Tate, an Atlanta obstetrician and gynecologist. "Would you cut off someone's leg if she asked you?"

In the past decade, the West has been confronted with a series of unfamiliar legal, medical and ethical problems, says Ahmed Jamal, a London film maker who was raised in Pakistan. His recent British TV film documented the career of Tahir Mahmood, a former cabdriver from Huddersfield, England, which tracks down runaway wives and daughters. Some of them were escaping physical abuse or were trying to dodge arranged marriages.

The film triggered public outrage, which stunned Mahmood. He believed that "he was a public servant of sorts, putting back together good Muslim families," says Jamal.

Scottish lawyer Cameron Fyfe represents Muslim clients forced into arranged marriages. In October 1992 he won an annulment for one woman on the ground that she had been forced into marriage when she was under the legal age.

The woman, who now lives with her three children in Glasgow, was 14 when her father announced that he was taking her on a vacation to Pakistan. Shortly after their arrival, she was told that she would be marrying her cousin. Following the ceremony, her father turned over her passport to the new husband and returned to Scotland. The teen-age bride's new home was a hut with no electricity, gas, or running water, and from the first day her husband beat her.

Two years later, he moved his young family to Glasgow in the hope of making more money. When he finally got his own residence permit, he punched his wife in the face, screaming, she says, "This is the only reason I married you." The beating became so grisly that neighbours finally called the police, who explained to the bewildered, battered girl that she could legally leave her husband.

During the three years it took to win her case, the woman became the pariah of Glasgow's Pakistani community. "Some people spat on me, others would cross the street if they saw me," she says.

Attempted Censorship. In the United States as well, among a small segment of American Muslims there is a resentment bordering on hostility toward any kind of scrutiny or criticism of Islam. When the Atlanta Journal-Constitution ran a series on women and Islamic fundamentalism, it was besieged with letter accusing it of racism and Muslim-bashing.

The 1991 release of "Not Without My Daughter", a film based on the true story of an American woman's escape from her Iranian husband, occasioned chilling attempts at suppression. Movie theatres where the film played received threats. It is unclear whether such censorship is homegrown or orchestrated from abroad.

Most observers believe that fundamentalist extremists have found nesting sites throughout the country, and that they hide within unsuspecting Muslim communities. Meanwhile, the bewildered media, scrambling to be politically correct, have cranked out a plethora of feel-good features on Muslim culture. At the same time they erroneously imply that restrictions against women are part and parcel of Islamic law.

"We try to educate our own community about the true teachings of Islam," says Nahid Ansari, a board member of the Muslim Women's League and a member of the Islamic Centre of Southern California in Los Angeles. "It's appalling what goes on in the name of Islam."


I'm sure every woman on this forum is going to run to join Islam. :whack:

[Ric]

Because of my post? :huh:

Today @ 08:49 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=154122#post154122)
Exmo-Robertson:


:huh:

[Exmo-Robertson]

Today @ 02:27 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=154146#post154146)
Ric:

Because of my post? :huh:



:huh:

Yes, because then I wouldn't be violating the back to back posting rule. :grin:

[Bill the Cat]

sneaky little elvis, isn't he??

[Dr T]

I think that before any serious discussion could take place on this topic the initial statements need a little backing up first.
100,000 people a year are converting to Islam. Proof some unquoted poll. I doubt there is anything like this number converting, just Muslim wishful thinking. So if the this bit is made up what about the rest?

Well I don't believe this number, and I ask for some real proof of this.

In fact has the quoted estimate number of Muslims in the states has fallen, or so I believe?

Not in real terms, but in terms of numbers quoted. A few years ago the number quoted was about 7 million, the figure now believed to be true is about 4 million.

In the same way that the Muslim press mis reported the war in Iraq, the Muslim press makes up the numbers it would like to see and publishes them as truth.

We are starting to live in a society where fear of Islam is starting to erode freedom of speech, but we can not allow this to happen. When Muslims claim things certain things they must be challenged, where is the proof of the original assertion?

Does anyone actually believe that 100,000 people are converting to Islam each and every year in the States?

If not what are we discussing here?

[themuzicman]

It's pretty obvious that Syrian is trying to pin the Jewish law on Christians, when we are not obliged to follow any law.

Throw in a few intentional misinterpretations of the NT, and you can pretty much throw most of that out.

Move along... nothing to see here.

Michael

[dizzle]

Yesterday @ 05:08 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=153966#post153966)
Proud_Syrian:



This is the answer:

http://www.answering-christianity.com


In other words, not only do I ignore a Moderator's instructions, I don't have an answer so I spit out a link. For everyone, here is the article he refuses to address:

http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7024

[Exmo-Robertson]

I don't forsee any real debate coming out of Proud Syrian. He is only a frantic Muslim troll. He'll hit and run.

[Proud_Syrian]

07-20-2003 @ 10:59 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=153994#post153994)
Hamster:

http://www.answering-christianity.com

That's already been answered by www.Answering-Islam.org (in case you're wondering)

In case you are wondering, Answering islam lies site was established years before answering christianity, so answering christianity answers the christian lies against Islam and exposes the false illogical doctrine of christianity and the fact that the bible is filled with contradictions and errors.

[Proud_Syrian]

[QUOTE]07-20-2003 @ 11:53 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=154029#post154029)
Exmo-Robertson:


WOMEN'S LIBERATION THROUGH ISLAM
Today people think that women are liberated in the West and that thewomen's liberation movement began in the 20th century. Actually, thewomen's liberation movement was not begun by women but was revealed by Godto a man in the seventh century by the name of Muhammad (peace be uponhim), who is known as the last Prophet of Islam. The Qur'an and theTraditions of the Prophet (Hadith or Sunnah) are the sources from whichevery Muslim woman derives her rights and duties.


I. HUMAN RIGHTS
Islam, fourteen centuries ago, made women equally accountable to God inglorifying and worshipping Him - setting no limits on her moral progress. Also, Islam established a woman's equality in her humanity with men.

In the Qur'an, in the first verse of the chapter entitled "Women," Godsays, "O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created youfrom a single soul and from it its mate and from them both have spreadabroad a multitude of men and women. Be careful of your duty toward Allahin Whom you claim (your rights) of one another, and towards the wombs (that bore you). Lo! Allah has been a Watcher over you." (4:1)

Since men and women both came from the same essence, they are equal in their humanity. Women cannot be by nature evil (as some religious believe) or then men would be evil also. Similarly, neither gender can be superior because it would be a contradiction of equality.


II. CIVIL RIGHTS
In Islam, a woman has the basic freedom of choice and expression based on recognition of her individual personality. First, she is free to choose her religion. The Qur'an states: "There is no compulsion in religion. Right has been made distinct from error." (2:256)

Women are encouraged in Islam to contribute their opinions and ideas. There are many traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) which indicate women would pose questions directly to him and offer their opinions concerning religion, economics and social matters.

A Muslim woman chooses her husband and keeps her name after marriage. A Muslim woman's testimony is valid in legal disputes. In fact, in areas in which women are more familiar, their evidence is conclusive.


III. SOCIAL RIGHTS
The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Seeking knowledge is a mandate for every Muslim (male and female)." This includes knowledge of the Qur'an and the Hadith as well as other knowledge. Men and women both have the capacity for learning and understanding. Since it is also their obligation to promote good behavior and condemn bad behavior in all spheres of life, Muslim women must acquire the appropriate education to perform this duty in accordance with their own natural talents and interests.

While maintenance of a home, providing support to her husband, and bearing, raising and teaching of children are among the first and very highly regarded roles for a woman, if she has the skills to work outside the home for the good of the community, she may do so as long as her family obligations are met.

Islam recognizes and fosters the natural differences between men and women despite their equality. Some types of work are more suitable for men and other types for women. This in no way diminishes either's effort nor its benefit. God will reward both sexes equally for the value of their work, though it may not necessarily be the same activity.

Concerning motherhood, the Prophet (pbuh) said: "Heaven lies under the feet of mothers." This implies that the success of a society can be traced to the mothers that raised it. The first and greatest influence on a person comes from the sense of security, affection, and training received from the mother. Therefore, a woman having children must be educated and conscientious in order to be a skillful parent.


IV. POLITICAL RIGHTS
A right given to Muslim women by God 1400 years ago is the right to vote. On any public matter, a woman may voice her opinion and participate in politics. One example, narrated in the Qur'an (60:12), is that Muhammad (pbuh) is told that when the believing women come to him and swear their allegiance to Islam, he must accept their oath. This established the right of women to select their leader and publicly declare so. Finally, Islam does not forbid a woman from holding important positions in government. Abdur-Rahman Ibn Auf consulted many women before he recommended Uthman Ibn Affan to be the Caliph.


V. ECONOMIC RIGHTS
The Qur'an states: "By the creation of the male and female; Verily, (the ends) ye strive for are diverse." (92:3-4)

In these verses, God declares that He created men and women to be different, with unique roles, functions and skills. As in society, where there is a division of labor, so too in a family; each member has different responsibilities. Generally, Islam upholds that women are entrusted with the nurturing role, and men, with the guardian role. Therefore, women are given the right of financial support.

The Qur'an states: "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend of their wealth (for the support of women)." (4:34)

This guardianship and greater financial responsibility is given to men, requires that they provide women with not only monetary support but also physical protection and kind and respectful treatment.

The Muslim woman has the privilege to earn money, the right to own property, to enter into legal contracts and to manage all of her assets in any way she pleases. She can run her own business and no one has any claim on her earnings including her husband. The Qur'an states:

"And in no wise covet those things in which Allah hath bestowed His gifts more freely on some of you than on others; to men is allotted what they earn, and to women, what they earn; but ask Allah of His bounty, for Allah hath full knowledge of all things." (4:32)

A woman inherits from her relatives. The Qur'an states: "For men there is a share in what parents and relatives leave, and for women there is a share of what parents and relatives leave, whether it be little or much - an ordained share." (4:7)


VI. RIGHTS OF A WIFE
The Qur'an states: "And among His signs is that He created for you mates from among yourselves that you may live in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between you; Verily, in that are signs for people who reflect." (30:21)

Marriage is therefore not just a physical or emotional necessity, but in fact, a sign from God! It is a relationship of mutual rights and obligations based on divine guidance. God created men and women with complimentary natures, and in the Qur'an, He laid out a system of laws to support harmonious interaction between the sexes.

"...They are your garments and you are their garments." (2:187)

Clothing provides physical protection and covers the beauty and faults of the body. Likewise, a spouse is viewed this way. Each protects the other and hides the faults and compliments the characteristics of the spouse.

To foster the love and security that comes with marriage, Muslim wives have various rights. The first of the wife's rights is to receive mahr, a gift from the husband which is part of the marriage contract and required for the legality of the marriage.

The second right of a wife is maintenance. Despite any wealth she may have, her husband is obligated to provide her with food, shelter and clothing. He is not forced, however, to spend beyond his capability and his wife is not entitled to make unreasonable demands. The Qur'an states: "Let the man of means spend according to his means, and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allah has given him. Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him." (65:7)

God tells us men are guardians over women and are afforded the leadership in the family. His responsibility for obeying God extends to guiding his family to obey God at all times.

A wife's rights also extend beyond material needs. She has the right to kind treatment. The Prophet (pbuh) said: "The most perfect believers are the best in conduct. And the best of you are those who are best to their wives." God tells us He created mates and put love, mercy, and tranquillity between them.

Both men and women have a need for companionship and sexual needs, and marriage is designed to fulfill those needs. For one spouse to deny this satisfaction to the other, temptation exists to seek it elsewhere.


VII. DUTIES OF A WIFE
With rights come responsibilities. Therefore, wives have certain obligations to their husbands. The Qur'an states: "The good women in the absence of their husbands guard their rights as Allah has enjoined upon them to be guarded." (4:34)

A wife is to keep her husband's secrets and protect their marital privacy. Issues of intimacy or faults of his that would dishonor him, are not to be shared by the wife, just as he is expected to guard her honor.

A wife must also guard her husband's property. She must safeguard his home and possessions, to the best of her ability, from theft or damage. She should manage the household affairs wisely so as to prevent loss or waste. She should not allow anyone to enter the house whom her husband dislikes nor incur any expenses of which her husband disapproves.

A Muslim woman must cooperate and coordinate with her husband. There cannot, however, be cooperation with a man who is disobedient to God. She should not fulfill his requests if he wants her to do something unlawful. A husband also should not take advantage of his wife, but be considerate of her needs and happiness.


VIII. CONCLUSION
The Qur'an states: "And it becomes not a believing man or a believing women, when Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad) have decided on an affair (for them), that they should (after that) claim any say in their affair; and whoso is rebellious to Allah and His Messenger, he verily goes astray in error manifest." (33:36)

The Muslim woman was given a role, duties and rights 1400 years ago that most women do not enjoy today, even in the West. These are from God and are designed to keep balance in society; what may seem unjust or missing in one place is compensated for or explained in another place. Islam is a complete way of life.

-- Mary Ali and Anjum Ali


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The Institute of Islamic Information and Education (III&E) is dedicated to the cause of Islam in North America through striving to elevate the image of Islam and Muslims by providing the correct information about Islamic beliefs, history and civilization from the authentic sources. Enquiries are welcome.

Islam-on-the-Phone (312) 777-0767
Ask for a list of questions and codes.

For more information please contact:
The Institute of Islamic Information and Education P.O. Box 41129
Chicago, IL 60641-0129 U.S.A.
Tel. (312) 777-7443, Fax. (312) 777-7199

[Solly]

Proud Syrian, are you Green World?
if so, you know how this kind of argumentation will end - you taking you ball back and going off in a huff. This is a discussion site, not a billboard. Please present your views, and discuss them, not just cut and paste theology.
Ask a question, challenge a view, and DISCUSS it.

slly5

[Sher]

Why are so many "CHRISTIAN" women converting to Islam?

Because too many churches are too compromising ... not teaching the Truth of the Word. A sad commentary on our modern times. If more churches believed in ... and taught ... the fundamentals, building firm foundations ... women ... and men ... wouldn't feel the need to look elsewhere for spirituality.

:shersig:

[dizzle]

Today @ 02:43 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=155057#post155057)
Proud_Syrian:



In case you are wondering, Answering islam lies site was established years before answering christianity, so answering christianity answers the christian lies against Islam and exposes the false illogical doctrine of christianity and the fact that the bible is filled with contradictions and errors.


Actually we were wondering when you were going to post an original thought of your own and specifically deal with the points here, and you answered our question and showed that you have no compunction to slander and are too cowardly to answer any questions. If this is your "Muslim witness" you are not very well.

You were asked by me as Moderator before I entered the debate to provide the source for your cut and paste argument. Are you always so disrespectful of rules and authority (ironic that I am a women too)? Well I will post it for you so that you post is not deleted -

This may be the exact source

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/women.html

This one is similar:

http://www.netbangla.org/Islam/why_are_so_many_women_converting.htm

[TucTuc]

Hey 'Proud Syrian', is pride a sin in Islam?

[Dr T]

So far every link I have gone done just quotes 'in a recent poll 100,000 people are converting every year to Islam, and of these 80% are women....". I can't find any that actually gives a reference for this poll, have I missed it, sorry if I have, but all the links I have followed so far just have the quote. Can someone point me to the actual poll?

[Socrates]

Yesterday @ 11:48 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=155160#post155160)
Sher:

Why are so many "CHRISTIAN" women converting to Islam?

Because too many churches are too compromising ... not teaching the Truth of the Word. A sad commentary on our modern times. If more churches believed in ... and taught ... the fundamentals, building firm foundations ... women ... and men ... wouldn't feel the need to look elsewhere for spirituality.

How true, Sher. :bawl: The lack of doctrinal teaching and apologetics in the church is a sad commentary on our times. No wonder so many Christians are compartmentalized in their thinking. As an example of the problem, here is an extract from the article The Koran vs Genesis (http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/docs/v24n2_islam.asp):

‘My name is Muhammad’, the young man said to a fellow student at university in Australia. ‘Mu_ham_mad?’, she replied, ‘Where have I heard that name before?’

After he, a Muslim, explained that Mu_ham_mad is the name of the ‘Great Prophet’ of Islam, the young lady, raised in a church-going family, asked about the differences between Islam and Christianity.

The Muslim man explained that probably the most fundamental difference is that the Koran speaks of Jesus as a prophet—definitely not the Son of God.

That evening, the Australian-born student told her father of the encounter, and asked, ‘Dad, I’ve been thinking … our bodies are unclean! Why would God, who is pure, sully himself by coming down to Earth in human form?’

After her father failed to give a reasoned answer, she turned her back on the church, converted to Islam and later married a Muslim.

See also this response to a Muslim (http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/feedback/2003/0516.asp).

[Dr T]

Odd that the Muslim didn't point out that the Koran says that Jesus was the only person without sin.

[Christianotaku]

The fastest growig religion on earth is cristianity. What the people who make these numbers dont know that in many countries like cuba & china there are thousands of people beeing converted every day and withing 4 years china will be a christian nations!!!

also brazil in 10 years will be a christian nation over 40% of the people there are christian.

[Andrew]

Proud Syrian,


Christian Scientists are declaring the Koran is from God.


They are doing no such thing. The fact of the matter is that data contained in the Qur'an on the development of humans is either:

1) obvious- surely no one is going to throw their hands up in the air and proclaim miracle because someone recognised that semen is involved in procreation. That is something that has been well known since the earliest days of civilisation.

2) wrong, often borrowing from earlier Greek thought- for example, one reads in sura sura 86:6-7 that “He is created from a drop emitted - proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.” From the description, the location is the kidney area. This is quite contrary to scientific fact that sperm is produced by the testicles. The source of this error in the Qur'an is Hippocrates who taught that semen comes from all the fluid in the body, diffusing from the brain into the spinal marrow, before passing through the kidneys and via the testicles into the penis.


The Christian Bishops and Priests are admitting the Bible has tensions


I've briefly scanned you link and I would make a few comments:
1) NO Christian ever claims that Jesus wrote part of the Bible- that is strawman
2) All INFORMED Christians recognise the humanity of the Scriptures. While inspiring the text, God did not remove from the Biblical authors their own reasoning, distinct styles, abilities, etc.


Jesus is a Muslim


That is a statement based upon an unnatural definition of what a Muslim is. If a Muslim be "someone who submits their will before God", then I am a Muslim, too. That definition is shown to be perverse since I completely reject the Qur'an and consider that the Muhammad of Islamic traditions is a horrible, hate-filled man rather than one deserving of any respect.


The Bible Convicts Women as the original Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}


As Dee Dee pointed out, your logic is bunk. Since when is chronological order an indicator of greatness?


The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49}


Ecclesiasticus is non-canonical so I don't feel the need to defend it.

TBC...

[Andrew]

The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}


Women had an important role to play in Jesus' ministry:
1) He constantly used them as positive examples
2) The functioned as financial supporters of His ministry, eg. Mary, Joanna and Susanna.
3) They were active in evangelism
4) They are involved throughout Jesus' life
5) In Luke 15, we see Jesus using a woman as an example of God the Father

Women also had important roles in the early church:
1) They were apostles- see, for example, Junia in Rom 16.7.
2) They functioned as deacons- see, for example, Phoebe in Rom 16.
3) Paul had female co-workers (synergos) and hard-workers (kopion) who assisted him in "composing letters (Rom 16:22; I Thess 1:1), carried apostolic messages to local churches (1 Cor 4.17; 16:10-11), sought to encourage the believers on Paul's behalf (1 Thess 3:2), reported to Paul the status of congregations under his care (1 Thess 3:6) and even occasionally hosted house churches (1 Cor 16:19)...In view of this wide range of ministry, it would be ludicrous to deny that Paul's coworkers possessed authority in the churches (1 Cor 16:17-18)...a role which included the task of admonition (1 Thess 5:12)...Paul spoke readily of women, as well as men, as his coworkers." (Grenz, S & Kjesbo, D, Women in the Church: A Biblical Theology of Women in Ministry, IVP: 1995 at 84)

So what was Paul talking about in 1 Cor 14? Glenn Miller does an excellent context-study of the passage at http://www.christian-thinktank.com/fem09.html . Scroll down to about half way. If you have any objections, raise them here.

TBC...

[Andrew]

I'll come back to the rest later... I'm at uni so I'll concentrate on one this for the minute.


The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the chance of rape, (God Forbid), see statistic link below.


The Bible requires people to dress modestly 'though 1 Cor is not talking about the wearing of veils/hijabs. The word 'veil' nowhere appears in Paul's text, neither as a noun or a verb. Paul is referring to the arrangement of a woman's hair.

In Graeco-Roman culture women typically had long hair and men short hair. A woman whose hair was cut very short was probably passing herself off as a man, whether as the 'male' partner in a lesbian liaison or as a fugitive woman seeking to avoid abduction and rape in times of war. It was a matter of shame for a woman to be of 'mannish' appearance by being shaved or shorn (verse 6). Thus the length of hair at that time denoted a person to be a man or a woman. Paul said that long hair dishonours a man, whereas a woman's long hair (when arranged 'up,' as a 'mantle' - verse 15) is her glory (verses 14-15). Part of Paul's concern in this passage, then, is to preserve among believers a visible distinction (consistent with that culture) between men and women. Here Paul is seeking to uphold the Creator's creation of the polarities of human sexuality. The Old Testament rules against a man wearing a woman's clothing and vice versa gave expression to God's creation of humans as 'male and female' (Deut 22:5; Gen 1 :27). In Corinth hair length was a mark of 'male-ness' or 'female-ness,' a distinction Paul did not wish to see blurred within the church community or elsewhere.

A woman's hair arrangement, however, symbolised something else that was closely related to her femininity. Women typically had long hair which was arranged neatly 'up' often with a partial cloth cover, as the many sculptures of women from those times indicate. Among the women who wore their hair 'down' were ecstatic, out-of-control priestesses speaking prophetic oracles at the temple of Apollo at Delphi. In speaking out against mimicking such practices, he is concerned with maintaining social order.

[Andrew]

I would add that rape statistics are notoriously hard to come by in Islamic countries. A brief survey of the Amnesty International and other human rights sites show a horrible situation. A friend of mine (who has since left Islam) lived in Saudi Arabia during his childhood and he informs me that rape is rampant. Furthermore, I'm informed that the situation is such that even catching a glimpse at a woman's wrist in such circumstances is enough to 'turn on' Saudi women whereas living in Australia, a woman wearing a sarong over a bikini around the place is really commonplace and not particularly attention-grabbing at all.

[Andrew]

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}

One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman who was raped? According to the Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life with the man who Raped You.

The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book 86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage)".

Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?


First, we are dealing with a situation under the Law, not under the New Covenant. The question really is one about the character of God rather than anything relevant to us. JPH answers the charge:

"... our subject objects that the victim may not want to marry the rapist. In modern times this would be a sensible objection; but for the ancients, this was a highly viable and indeed merciful solution. The victim would no longer regarded as marriagable and would therefore lose means of interdependent support. The rapist is here being required to provide that support. It is quite unlikely in this social context that the victim would refuse this arrangement; indeed, they might well demand such an arrangement. This is not a matter of having the rapist be one's loving partner, or cohort for further sexual relations."

[Andrew]

Women were given rights to Vote less than a 100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.


What does this have to do with anything? Are you trying to say because the US didn't do X until Y, that this somehow represents a Biblical position? What kind of bunk logic is that?

I'm not sure the aya says anything like what you're attempting it to mean. Muhammadan Islam was theocratic rather than democratic. If one accepts Islamic traditions, Muhammad was not only a 'prophet' but also a statesman and military leader.

[Andrew]

In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this male greediness {Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects All.


Again, this is not a moral law and must be viewed in its historical context. The first thing to note is that the summary is incorrect. The passage reads:

27:5 So Moses brought their case before the Lord. 27:6 And the Lord spoke to Moses: 27:7 "The daughters of Zelophehad have a valid claim. You must indeed give them possession of an inheritance among their father's relatives, and you must transfer the inheritance of their father to them. 27:8 And you must tell the Israelites, 'If a man dies and has no son, then you must transfer his inheritance to his daughter; 27:9 and if he has no daughter, then you are to give his inheritance to his brothers; 27:10 and if he has no brothers, then you are to give his inheritance to his father's brothers; 27:11 and if his father has no brothers, then you are to give his inheritance to his relative nearest to him from his family, and he will possess it. And it will be for the Israelites a legal requirement, as the Lord commanded Moses.'"

It makes sense bearing in mind the nature of the family structures that existed at the time where the daughter would be married into another family, as would the other female relatives.

The situation no longer exists socially and nor does it legally. However, the situation in Islam is described by sura 4:11:

[Qur’an 4:11] Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one (only) then the half…

[Anthony Wales]

Below are some explanations for the actual conversions of women to Islam.

1) Muslims have been using the following method in their apologetics and evangelisation. Contrasting the position of women in Christianity and Islam by presenting a really bad image of Christianity and a really good image of Islam. For example: Sherif Azeem's article 'Women in Islam vs Women in Judaeo-Christian Tradition'. Women (and others) looking at the two religions may not do independent investigations but believe what they read and hear, and therefore choose Islam.

2) Women may be converting to Islam as a reaction against the bad aspects of the image of women in the west today. For example: Islam wants women to wear lots of clothes and this may be adopted as a reaction against the lack of clothes on many western women.

3) Some western women may be dating or married to Muslim men and feel obliged to adopt Islam because of this.

4) Modern western societies contain many bad things and people are looking for answers and meaning. Christianity has been the traditional religion in the west, many people have had bad experiences with particular Christians, and Christianity is often misrepresented and attacked by segments of western society (notably the media). This turns many people away from Christianity and makes them look elsewhere for answers and purpose. Islam comes along as something new to many western people. It tells people what to think and do (right down to what to eat and wear) so they have the simplicity and ease of not having to use their minds and freedom (in the same way they would have to if they were Christians), and it has none of the more complex truths that exist in Christianity (like the Trinity and Incarnation). Muslims produce literature, websites and face to face discussions that present a false picture of Christianity (as something stupid and bad) and put this next to the best picture of Islam that they can develop (as something scientific, good and beneficial for women). All these converge and cause some people to convert to Islam.

God bless,
Anthony.

[Dr T]

I suspect that the biggest reason is likely to be when women marry a Muslim man.

I tried to follow the original links to have a look at the source of the information with regards to the numbers converting. All of them just led to unidentified quotes, that is teh same statement but nothing to indicate how it had been calculated. I suspect that the numbers indicated are not real. Does any one know where real figures on this could be found?

[Mujibur]

Muslims have been using the following method in their apologetics and evangelisation. Contrasting the position of women in Christianity and Islam by presenting a really bad image of Christianity and a really good image of Islam. For example: Sherif Azeem's article 'Women in Islam vs Women in Judaeo-Christian Tradition'. Women (and others) looking at the two religions may not do independent investigations but believe what they read and hear, and therefore choose Islam.

That reminds me of a Religious Studies class I took in university on Islam in the Modern World. The professor (caucasian woman) was teaching one day on the difference between the portrayal of women in the bible and in the Qur'an. She included only the references from the bible where the women are told not to speak up in church, or any law that appeared to subjugate women (without any explanation of why these would have been the case) and no mention of Jesus' interaction with women or anything like that, and then only the references in the Qur'an which sounded favourable to women. It was so completely one-sided it was appalling. One of the girls in the class stood up and asked the professor, "Are you just taking all the references from the bible that sound bad to women and all the good ones in the Qur'an that sound good to women?" The teacher was stunned and could not give an answer. She then changed the subject and started teaching about Qutb and his philosophies. It was quite funny, but also sad because it shows what can happen with uncritical examination of text or blatant bias.

[Rocky]

Exmo-Robertson,
Your trying to explain the meaning of the verses in the Quran, however the Quran needs to be explained by someone who is either a scholar, or has a very good understanding of the Arabic language, otherwise it can be understood wrong. Also, you were blaming Islam for being responsible for someone who couldn't go outside without being dressed up all in black. I think your getting Islam mixed up with rules a government layed down. Unfortunately some of governments of muslim countries do things like this, but we can't hold Islam responsible for such things. I think you need to search beyond what you hear on T.V or see in the newspapers in order to find out the truth about Islam.

[Preacherman]

Salaam Alikum, P. S...

i think the first thing you need to do is make a definite differentiation between Christian, and "western"...many of the muslims i know have quite a hard time understanding that just because you are born in let us say for example...canada...that you are not automatically a christian....Christianity is not at all the same as islam, you are not born into it, and are not Christian just because your parents are...or because you are the citizen of a so-called christian country....

it truly is a new birth, a spiritual birth, akin to marriage, it is something that one must experience personally. Also there is also the difference in that we seek to know God, and be known of Him...not merely submit to rituals...the differences between Islam, and Christianity....(I prefer to call it "the way") are why your judgements of our "religion" are so flawed...you are seeing it through as it were, tinted lenses...and without removing the glasses, you cannot see the true colours...bad analogy perhaps, but it is all i can think of...