kinghall or Church and WHY

[Joe Gofish]

Where do the JW's get the name "Kingdom Hall"? I would suspect its a way for them to appear different than other churches down the street, but dose that give them an excuse to say "kingdom hall" instead of "church" or something similar? What does the BIble say Church or Kingdom hall

[NonTrinitarian]

Where do the JW's get the name "Kingdom Hall"? I would suspect its a way for them to appear different than other churches down the street, but dose that give them an excuse to say "kingdom hall" instead of "church" or something similar? What does the BIble say Church or Kingdom hall

In the NT the "church" is not the building. You can't "go to church", you ARE the church. When most people say "church" they mean the building. Thus, our place of worship is not called a church, it's just a building. Many buildings where people meet are called halls. Ie, the town hall. Since the main message of Jesus when he was on the earth was God's Kingdom, we call our meeting place the Kingdom Hall. It's a hall wherein we discuss the Kingdom.

[Shazard]

Where do the JW's get the name "Kingdom Hall"? I would suspect its a way for them to appear different than other churches down the street, but dose that give them an excuse to say "kingdom hall" instead of "church" or something similar? What does the BIble say Church or Kingdom hall

Why do you think that Bible is of any value for JW what it says. They use it as reference guide for their own doctrines, magazines and organization stuff not as source of doctrine, but as backup of docktrine.

[NonTrinitarian]

Why do you think that Bible is of any value for JW what it says. They use it as reference guide for their own doctrines, magazines and organization stuff not as source of doctrine, but as backup of docktrine.

And an intelligent post that was:ahem:

[Rumination]

Where do the JW's get the name "Kingdom Hall"? I would suspect its a way for them to appear different than other churches down the street, but dose that give them an excuse to say "kingdom hall" instead of "church" or something similar? What does the BIble say Church or Kingdom hall

The JWs want to distance themselves from the terminology of 'Christiandom' the word translated 'church' (ecclesia...er' or something..) means: The Lord's house or assembly, the whole body of believers etc... so the JW's will try to rope you into a discussion about how the 'word' church isn't even in the Bible etc...and then try to pull out of that (or jump to) the conclusion that: this MUST mean that the Jehovah's Witnesses ARE God's true Organization bla bla bla...

[Cal_Minian]

Where do the JW's get the name "Kingdom Hall"? I would suspect its a way for them to appear different than other churches down the street, but dose that give them an excuse to say "kingdom hall" instead of "church" or something similar? What does the BIble say Church or Kingdom hall

The term "Church" is rendered from the Greek word EKKLESIA. The rendering "Church" as a building has very little foundation. The Greek word EKKLESIA (EK + KALEW = called out) refers to a group of people, not to a building. A better rendering is "congregation."

[Krusader]

Have you ever noticed that Kingdom Halls have no windows - kind of reflects their own brand of heresy. No real Son shine is allowed in.

[Cal_Minian]

Have you ever noticed that Kingdom Halls have no windows - kind of reflects their own brand of heresy. No real Son shine is allowed in.


After Jesus was ressurected he was able to enter a room with the doors locked. JWs do not worship the Sun God.

[Krusader]

After Jesus was ressurected he was able to enter a room with the doors locked. JWs do not worship the Sun God.

Nor do they worship the Son!

[Cal_Minian]

Nor do they worship the Son!


True, we are Christians and worship the one the Son worshipped.

[Krusader]

True, we are Christians and worship the one the Son worshipped.

And, I suppose you haven't read in the New Testament the many times that Jesus was worshipped, not to mention Thomas calling him "my Lord and my God." And by the way, the Society used to teach worship of Jesus, are you aware of that?

Please see:

http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/worshipjesus.htm

[Cal_Minian]

And, I suppose you haven't read in the New Testament the many times that Jesus was worshipped, not to mention Thomas calling him "my Lord and my God." And by the way, the Society used to teach worship of Jesus, are you aware of that?

Please see:

http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/worshipjesus.htm


Crusader,
The word PROSKUNEW (sometimes rendered worship) means to bown down in respect of someone. John 20:28 is variously interpreted. For example Augustine taught that Thomas called the Son Lord and the Father God in that verse. That is also my view. However if the Son was called QEOS in that verse it is in the context of QEOS as the representative of his God and Father, not that he is being called the Almighty God himself.


BDAG says that when it was given to Jesus it was homage:


• proskune,w (kune,w ‘to kiss’) impf. proseku,noun; fut. proskunh,sw; 1 aor. proseku,nhsa (trag., Hdt.+. Freq. used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before persons and kissing their feet or the hem of their garment, the ground, etc.; the Persians did this in the presence of their deified king, and the Greeks before a divinity or someth. holy.) to express in attitude or gesture one’s complete dependence on or submission to a high authority figure, (fall down and) worship, do obeisance to, prostrate oneself before, do reverence to, welcome respectfully... —Jesus, who is rendered homage as Messianic king and helper: Mt 2:2, 8, 11.—8:2; 9:18; 14:33; 15:25; J 9:38.—Mt 20:20


See why I like BDAG?

[Krusader]

Crusader,
The word PROSKUNEW (sometimes rendered worship) means to bown down in respect of someone. John 20:28 is variously interpreted. For example Augustine taught that Thomas called the Son Lord and the Father God in that verse. That is also my view. However if the Son was called QEOS in that verse it is in the context of QEOS as the representative of his God and Father, not that he is being called the Almighty God himself.


BDAG says that when it was given to Jesus it was homage:



See why I like BDAG?

So, exactly why did Jehovah God order all the angels of heaven to WORSHIP Jesus?

"And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

Now let me see - does that make sense. God commands the angels to worship an angel. Wow, I think that might be against one of God's own commandments.

[Cal_Minian]

So, exactly why did Jehovah God order all the angels of heaven to WORSHIP Jesus?

"And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

Now let me see - does that make sense. God commands the angels to worship an angel. Wow, I think that might be against one of God's own commandments.


As I quoted earlier, that particular Greek word comes under this heading in BDAG:


• proskune,w (kune,w ‘to kiss’) impf. proseku,noun; fut. proskunh,sw; 1 aor. proseku,nhsa (trag., Hdt.+. Freq. used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before persons and kissing their feet or the hem of their garment, the ground, etc.; the Persians did this in the presence of their deified king, and the Greeks before a divinity or someth. holy.) to express in attitude or gesture one’s complete dependence on or submission to a high authority figure, (fall down and) worship, do obeisance to, prostrate oneself before, do reverence to, welcome respectfully,

[Krusader]

As I quoted earlier, that particular Greek word comes under this heading in BDAG:

Look, I don't care what is in the BDAG, but what is in the word of God. Now, what does the NWT say regarding this verse. How do they translate it?

[Cal_Minian]

Look, I don't care what is in the BDAG, but what is in the word of God. Now, what does the NWT say regarding this verse. How do they translate it?

If you refer to John 20:28 it is not about translation but about interpretation.

[Krusader]

If you refer to John 20:28 it is not about translation but about interpretation.

I'm referring to the passage in Hebrews.

[Cal_Minian]

If you refer to John 20:28 it is not about translation but about interpretation.

The current renderng of that verse is "obeisance" which is consistent with BDAG. In older English even the word "worship" had that conotation in various contexts. To some extent it still does. However it is clearer to show that the word means homage or obeisance and that is the latest rendering. But I think you already knew that.

[Krusader]

The current renderng of that verse is "obeisance" which is consistent with BDAG. In older English even the word "worship" had that conotation in various contexts. To some extent it still does. However it is clearer to show that the word means homage or obeisance and that is the latest rendering. But I think you already knew that.

Cal, put away your BDAG and please read this:

http://www.carm.org/jw/nwt_proskuneo.htm

In any case, what about the Father ordering all the angels to worship His Son, Jesus, in the first chapter of Hebrews? Should God order angels to worship another angel?

[Cal_Minian]

Cal, put away your BDAG and please read this:

http://www.carm.org/jw/nwt_proskuneo.htm

In any case, what about the Father ordering all the angels to worship His Son, Jesus, in the first chapter of Hebrews? Should God order angels to worship another angel?

You have not been paying attention. The word PROSKUNEW does not necessarily or even generally mean worship in the sense of worshipping God.

Deal with that first.

[ollie]

Kingdom hall refers to a building wherein Jehovahs Witnesses congregate.

The church is not a building, but the saved in Christ.

ollie

[ollie]

Have you ever noticed that Kingdom Halls have no windows - kind of reflects their own brand of heresy. No real Son shine is allowed in.That is not true for all Kingdom halls.

ollie

[Cal_Minian]

Kingdom hall refers to a building wherein Jehovahs Witnesses congregate.

The church is not a building, but the saved in Christ.

ollie

Thank you ollie, you are entirely correct.