Unitarian Universalist Association

[Rose Raven]

http://www.uua.org/newcomers/

Have I mentioned that I think these are coolest people in the entire world?

The Unitarian Universalists, while an essentially Christian organization, show tolerance toward all faiths and believe that Salvation is for everyone. They educate themselves and their children in the traditions of many different faiths and generally tend to be very kind, intelligent, and open-minded people.

I think that everyone should have the privelige of visiting one of their congregations at least once. These folk deserve more recognition.

[spl_cadet]

http://catholic-cadet.sourcecod.com/heresy.jpg

[seer]

The Unitarian Universalists, while an essentially Christian organization, show tolerance toward all faiths and believe that Salvation is for everyone. They educate themselves and their children in the traditions of many different faiths and generally tend to be very kind, intelligent, and open-minded people.

First, they are not that tolerant towards bible believing Christians. Believe me had have felt their wrath. Second, they are not essentially Christian - not by a long shot. Third, the Devil is open minded - so what?

I think that everyone should have the privelige of visiting one of their congregations at least once. These folk deserve more recognition.

Just be sure to follow the party line. And what ever you do don't go around saying that Jesus is Lord and the only way to salvation.

[Rose Raven]

Satan has an open mind? Maybe that's why I worship him! I'll ask him to send a few demonic attacks your way :P.

[mickiel]

but do not expect to find agreement where there is none. The Unitarian Universalist tolerance for all others is a form of Godliness, FOR SURE, God is very, very, very tolerant if he wasn't, none of us would be alive. Not one of us. The Unitarian approach is beautiful, but there are no eyes for it here. There is dirt in the apporach, and people will focus on the dirt. A friend is one who loves you, KNOWING all of your faults and sins, and loves you anyway. This is how God is, but humans are not this way. I have seen the beauty of the Unitarians, although i disagree with things in their camp, i go on occassion, finding the tolerance better than the deception of other churchs. At times that is a comfort to me, a lesser of two approaches so to speak. I find them quite comforting , especially in my life, which is a fortress of solitude.


The world is a quagmire of religons, some better than others. All we can do Rose is try and sit where it is comfortable. In my view churchs are like rocking chairs, they do a lot of moving, but spiritually they are getting nowhere.

[themuzicman]

"He who sits in the middle of the road will get run over by that oncoming truck."

[Jin-Roh]

I've debated with Unitarians/Universalists before.





They don't make any sense.

[AVmetro]

Today @ 05:38 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=160640#post160640)
Jin-Roh:

I've debated with Unitarians/Universalists before.





They don't make any sense.

Ditto.

[Ric]

spl_cadet
http://catholic-cadet.sourcecod.com/heresy.jpg

Wow, this is a first! spl_cadet and I agree on something! :cheers:

[Minnesota]

No more than Christian theology is a

http://catholic-cadet.sourcecod.com/heresy.jpg

of Judaism.

[spl_cadet]

Today @ 06:04 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=160693#post160693)
Minnesota:

No more than Christian theology is a

http://catholic-cadet.sourcecod.com/heresy.jpg

of Judaism.

Not really, since Judaism considers Christianity to be a seperate religion.

[The Laughing Man]

Apply UU tenets to the rest of life and everything becomes just as meaningless.

For example, all mathematic equations lead to the same answer.
1 + 1 = 4 * 5 = 765,023 / 55.3212465 = ...

[Minnesota]

spl_cadet

Take a look at the following statements from the Unitarian Universalist Association.
http://www.uua.org/aboutuu/uufaq.html

Are Unitarian Universalists Christian?

Yes and no.

Yes, some Unitarian Universalists are Christian. Personal encounter with the spirit of Jesus as the christ richly informs their religious lives.

No, Unitarian Universalists are not Christian, if by Christian you mean those who think that acceptance of any creedal belief whatsoever is necessary for salvation. Unitarian Universalist Christians are considered heretics by those orthodox Christians who claim none but Christians are "saved." (Fortunately, not all the orthodox make that claim.)

Yes, Unitarian Universalists are Christian in the sense that both Unitarian and Universalist history are part of Christian history. Our core principles and practices were first articulated and established by liberal Christians.

Some Unitarian Universalists are not Christian. For though they may acknowledge the Christian history of our faith, Christian stories and symbols are no longer primary for them. They draw their personal faith from many sources: nature, intuition, other cultures, science, civil liberation movements, and so on.

How do UUs understand salvation?

Unitarian Universalists are as concerned with salvation, in the sense of spiritual health or wholeness, as any other religious people.

However, in many Western churches, salvation has come to be associated with a specific set of beliefs or a spiritual transformation of a very limited type.

Among Unitarian Universalists, instead of salvation you will hear of our yearning for, and our experience of, personal growth, increased wisdom, strength of character, and gifts of insight, understanding, inner and outer peace, courage, patience, and compassion. The ways in which these things come to, change, and heal us, are many indeed. We seek and celebrate them in our worship.

And about the Bible?

We do not hold the Bible-or any other account of human experience-to be either an infallible guide or the exclusive source of truth. Much biblical material is mythical or legendary. Not that it should be discarded for that reason! Rather, it should be treasured for what it is. We believe that we should read the Bible as we read other books (or the newspaper)-with imagination and a critical eye.

What about Jesus?

Classically, Unitarian Universalist Christians have understood Jesus as a savior because he was a God-filled human being, not a supernatural being. He was, and still is for many UUs, an exemplar, one who has shown the way of redemptive love, in whose spirit anyone may live generously and abundantly. Among us, Jesus' very human life and teaching have been understood as products of, and in line with, the great Jewish tradition of prophets and teachers. He neither broke with that tradition nor superseded it.

Many of us honor Jesus, and many of us honor other master teachers of past or present generations, like Moses or the Buddha. As a result, mixed-tradition families may find common ground in the UU fellowship without compromising other loyalties.


What do UUs believe about God?

Some Unitarian Universalists are nontheists and do not find language about God useful. The faith of other Unitarian Universalists in God may be profound, though among these, too, talk of God may be restrained. Why?

The word God is much abused. Far too often, the word seems to refer to a kind of granddaddy in the sky or a super magician. To avoid confusion, many Unitarian Universalists are more apt to speak of "reverence for life" (in the words of Albert Schweitzer, a Unitarian), the spirit of love or truth, the holy, or the gracious. Many also prefer such language because it is inclusive; it is used with integrity by theist and nontheist members.


Now, if you still believe that the criterion for exclusion from heresy is to be based on how the parent religion regards the splinter religion (you say "Judaism considers Christianity to be a separate religion" and therefore, Christians are not committing heresy,) considering the above statements, do you honestly believe that the majority of christians would embrace U.U.s as fellow christians? The Christians I have spoken to certainly do not (I was once a UU member and often had to explain their position to christians). Nor do they regard the UU as a christian religion. But perhaps you do. Can a religion still be christian if doesn't believe that the Bible is the true word of god? That Jesus is not god incarnate? The salvation of the soul is necessary?. Or that god does not necessarily exist? Would such a person still qualify as a Christian? Hmmmmm?

[The Laughing Man]

Unitarian Universalists are Christian in the sense that both Unitarian and Universalist history are part of Christian history.

That's like saying David Koresh was a Christian in the sense that he was a part of Christian history. Or that the citizens of Hong Kong are all Anglo-Saxon Brits because they're a part of British history. :ahem:

These people are idiots. :whack:

[Sheepdog]

Yesterday @ 12:17 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=160491#post160491)
Rose Raven:

The Unitarian Universalists, while an essentially Christian organization, ...

if UU's Christian, then i am an athiest

Sheepdog, who has been a Christian for 4+ years.

[Sheepdog]

Today @ 12:29 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=160784#post160784)
Minnesota:

spl_cadet

Take a look at the following statements from the Unitarian Universalist Association.
http://www.uua.org/aboutuu/uufaq.html

Are Unitarian Universalists Christian?

[list]Yes and no.

Yes, some Unitarian Universalists are Christian. Personal encounter with the spirit of Jesus as the christ richly informs their religious lives.

according to the Bible, even the Devil dresses up like an angel of life. the UU's are no more Christian for saying they are than i am an atheist for saying i am. i claim to be an atheist. therefore i am an atheist (even though i happen to believe in one more God than most other atheists :bonk:)

No, Unitarian Universalists are not Christian, if by Christian you mean those who think that acceptance of any creedal belief whatsoever is necessary for salvation.

in other words, a universalistic New Ager or Hindu could be considered Christian :wth: the fact is, you need to have a set of doctrines that define what a group believes. Jews aren't Christians because they deny Jesus was the Messiah. We aren't Jews because we don't adhere to the Torah. I am not a buddhist because i don't believe that all desire is bad.

we who call ourselves Christians adhere to at least these three truths: the Deity of Jesus (and thus Trinitarianism), the Physical Ressurection of Christ, and Salvation by Grace through Faith alone. UU's deny the first. it is debatable whether they deny the third (many Unies i talked to believe that all will inevitably come to faith, and hell is like purgatory, where it is a holding cell until those in it repent). thus we can't call them Christians, at least if we want to retain a meaningful definition of Christianity.

Yes, Unitarian Universalists are Christian in the sense that both Unitarian and Universalist history are part of Christian history. Our core principles and practices were first articulated and established by liberal Christians.

note that no one in orthodox Christianity adheres to such a definition. i would prefer to follow what the majority of Christians over time have defined themselves as, rather than how some obscure group defines it. (note, i am becoming more and more convinced the term "liberal Christian" is an oxymoron. i'd explain in detail, but that is a whole other debate).

Unitarian Universalists are as concerned with salvation, in the sense of spiritual health or wholeness, as any other religious people.

Overdone Cult Tactic #473: redefine orthodox terms so when you use them, you don't sound like a cult. what the heck do they mean by "spiritual health or wholeness"? and how in the heck does this possibly correspond with the Scriptural definition of salvation? nothing. quite clear, salvation in the Bible takes two aspects: justification (freedom from punishment) and sanctification (drawing nearer to God, while drawing away from sin). i guess their definition could fall into the latter, but if it does, it is terribly self-centered (authentic sanctification tends to emphasize God's work in the believer over the change itself)

However, in many Western churches, salvation has come to be associated with a specific set of beliefs or a spiritual transformation of a very limited type.

Cult tactic #522: Brush the importance of sound doctrine under the rug. what a bunch of dung bettle manure. without going into the nitty-gritty, let me put it this way: saying that salvation is associated with a belief is parallel to survivability being associated with the idea "being hit by a car is bad." while theology without a relationship with God is like a boat without a rudder, a relationship with God without sound theology is like a rudder without a boat. while it is fair to fault a group for emphasizing one over the other, both are essential for a Christian life with direction.

Among Unitarian Universalists, instead of salvation you will hear of our yearning for, and our experience of, personal growth, increased wisdom, strength of character, and gifts of insight, understanding, inner and outer peace, courage, patience, and compassion. The ways in which these things come to, change, and heal us, are many indeed. We seek and celebrate them in our worship.

notice how all of these are man-centered. orthodox Christianity doesn't say "what can God do for me," but "what can i do for my God?" any theology that isn't God centered is sure to lead to heresy. don't get me wrong, all that stuff they list is awesome, but we Christians must recognize that they are for the benefit of the Great Commission, the Church, and to a lesser exent the individual.

We do not hold the Bible-or any other account of human experience-to be either an infallible guide or the exclusive source of truth. Much biblical material is mythical or legendary. Not that it should be discarded for that reason! Rather, it should be treasured for what it is. We believe that we should read the Bible as we read other books (or the newspaper)-with imagination and a critical eye.

for the record, i don't believe that innerrancy is critical for belief in God-- belief in God is critical for belief in innerrancy. thus, compiling lists of "1001 Bible Errors" is entirly the wrong approach for skeptics to take.

however, the Christian must inevitably take the Bible as the authority over his life. By reading the Bible "with imagination and a critical eye," we put ourselves in authority over the Bible. by "imagination and critical eye," i am forced to assume they mean "accept the parts you like and reject the parts you don't like." this is stupidity incarnate! no man is perfect, and we are all bound to make mistakes (which is why i don't take the other extreme-- we should examine the Word critically, but in the end we don't bend Scripture to fit our theology, we bend ouselves to fit Scripture). once a supposed Christian says, "Much biblical material is mythical or legendary," it begs the question, just how do we know what is myth and what is not? UU self-defeats, as i can merely refute UU by taking whatever prooftexts they hold to as evidence for their beliefs and say "they are myth!"

Classically, Unitarian Universalist Christians have understood Jesus as a savior because he was a God-filled human being, not a supernatural being. He was, and still is for many UUs, an exemplar, one who has shown the way of redemptive love, in whose spirit anyone may live generously and abundantly. Among us, Jesus' very human life and teaching have been understood as products of, and in line with, the great Jewish tradition of prophets and teachers. He neither broke with that tradition nor superseded it.

unlike Hindus, i only believe in one God. does that make me an atheist? of course not. likewise, when a person denies that Jesus is God incarnate, by their confession we know they are not Christian.

Many of us honor Jesus, and many of us honor other master teachers of past or present generations, like Moses or the Buddha. As a result, mixed-tradition families may find common ground in the UU fellowship without compromising other loyalties.

except, a Christ-alone Christian cannot believe as the UU's do here without compromising. Inclusivism cannot include exclusivism, by definition. Aparently the UU's have chucked critical thinking right out the window.

Some Unitarian Universalists are nontheists and do not find language about God useful. The faith of other Unitarian Universalists in God may be profound, though among these, too, talk of God may be restrained. Why?

what? a nontheist Christian? come on, Minnesota, even you have to abmit that is absurd.

The word God is much abused. Far too often, the word seems to refer to a kind of granddaddy in the sky or a super magician. To avoid confusion, many Unitarian Universalists are more apt to speak of "reverence for life" (in the words of Albert Schweitzer, a Unitarian), the spirit of love or truth, the holy, or the gracious. Many also prefer such language because it is inclusive; it is used with integrity by theist and nontheist members.

pardon me while i barf. forget truth, lets use amiguous terms so that folks won't be offended. Puulleeze. truth is so important in math, science, the job field, and every other conceivable reality of life, why is it so unimportant in religion?

i dont' get it, how can someone go so far into inclusivism, yet be so inconsistent with it? 1 + 1 = 2. oh wait, let's not offend the people who think it should be 1 + 1 = 5. there is no word in the English language to describe the total inanity of the UU's position.

Now, if you still believe that the criterion for exclusion from heresy is to be based on how the parent religion regards the splinter religion (you say "Judaism considers Christianity to be a separate religion" and therefore, Christians are not committing heresy,) considering the above statements, do you honestly believe that the majority of christians would embrace U.U.s as fellow christians?

since this question wasn't posed to me, i'll leave it to spl to answer. personally, i am not concerned about the modern nonChristian Jew's opinion of Christianity. I make no attempt at saying Christianity is just another sect of modern Judaism, because it is not. They rejected the Messiah that was sent to them (not all, i mean in general).

The Christians I have spoken to certainly do not (I was once a UU member and often had to explain their position to christians). Nor do they regard the UU as a christian religion. But perhaps you do. Can a religion still be christian if doesn't believe that the Bible is the true word of god? That Jesus is not god incarnate? The salvation of the soul is necessary?. Or that god does not necessarily exist? Would such a person still qualify as a Christian? Hmmmmm?

you should know my answer by now.

ok, not i am done :soapbox:

[The Laughing Man]

UU a cult? Noooooooo! :lmbo: