Male/Female Attributes of God (for Jawa Man)

[JackC]

I saw that you posted on the Judaism forum a query regarding the Jewish understanding of the male and female attributes of God. I am interested in their reply, not wanting to infringe on that discussion, and so thought to offer a non - Jewish answer here.

Interesting, that when I first began my journey for Truth, without fear and so without feeling a necessity to hold to what anyone else believes, I first ended up on a Messianic internet site - Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ, and it was the quote I offered to Jane that led me there.

Like Jane I too had an inner awakening of sorts that things were not as I was being taught at church, specifically regarding the masculine-feminine, feeling, without any knowledge of Gnosticism, that there was something going on regarding our fall and salvation that was being kept from us in mainstream Christianity.

This journey has led me long past the Messianic Orthodox, and if I might share here with you..

What we think of, as humans, as male-female, the different genders for procreation, is actually a fallen image/reflection of God and how He creates.

A short story of creation goes like this...

There was One Undifferentiated Spirit that had the Thought to experience Himself in individualization, in a Love relationship as the Lover, the Beloved, and Love Itself.

And so this One Spirit differentiated Itself into Two - It's Infinite Self and a being just like Itself in all ways, but finite. The latter is known in Christianity as the Holy Spirit.

These two related in Bliss, the relationship polarizing - the Infinite into Will and Power (The Father) and the Finite into Intelligence and Wisdom (The Holy Spirit). The former is defined spiritually as the divine Masculine and the latter the divine Feminine.

The offspring of their Blissful interactions was the Only Begotten, Love Itself, Christ, and all else that was created was created in the same pattern of Blissful interactions between Will and Power and Intelligence and Wisdom, through the Son, through Christ.

All of Creation exists in a spiral of this interaction - as expressed in the tetragrammaton YHWH [the Father and Mother Energies giving Birth the Son]. In Judaism this spiral of creation is called the Tree of Life, in Christianity, the Body of Christ.

The feminine is the outer expression, or the next level of creation in the spiral.

Adam, or mankind, was created in the same pattern, being both male and female, and then the feminine (Eve) became the outer expression - and not woman as is understood in the outer ranks.


The existence of mankind now as men and women, separate, is an expression of our falling from the Tree of Life - our outer and inner beings now existing cut off from each other (we are veiled to the Kingdom within.)





Jack

[Jawa Man]

Sorry, I only just noticed this thread. I'll try to have a response for you soon.

[Sparko]

that is just whacked.

[mastralvarado]

What's so whacked about this theory? Just because it doesn't imply a threefold infinite G-d and threefold finite G-d which is the same G-d in essence in contradiction to your trinity concept?

Who's the one with the 1 x 1 x 1 brain now?

[Sparko]

What's so whacked about this theory? Just because it doesn't imply a threefold infinite G-d and threefold finite G-d which is the same G-d in essence in contradiction to your trinity concept?

The bible refutes it.

John 1:1

Not only that, his theory ends up with 3 Gods. You are not a polytheist are you?

[mastralvarado]

I never said I was a polytheist. I just said this is a PERFECT which I have no problem with. You just admitted that you are a polytheist.

If you claim John 1:1 makes your argument for you but YOU use logic to defend it then you are a hypocrite.

[Sparko]

I never said I was a polytheist. I just said this is a PERFECT which I have no problem with. You just admitted that you are a polytheist.

If you claim John 1:1 makes your argument for you but YOU use logic to defend it then you are a hypocrite.

I admitted I was a polytheist by rejecting a scenario that proposes 3 Gods instead of 1?

Dang you really ARE just like Sylvius. I better go check the IPs

[JackC]

Eghads!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In the beginning, the first 'act' by God of creation was a Thought to create - to express Himself in individualization, and that thought was and is His Word. His Word is likened to the Seed, the Power, the Force, behind all creation and was carried forth from Him in His Only Begotten, Christ, by whom and through whom all that is created was created.

The Son being The Word, the Seed of Creation, the Power, the Force, Love.

The procreation process of fallen humanity is a crude picture of the same, which makes sense, since all there is is God and what He has created from His Mind, His Nature. And so all that is has to somehow be of the same - either a direct image or a distorted reflection (cloudy) as is fallen creation.

And then the Word became flesh, partook of flesh, just as did mankind, in order to reach mankind.

How is any of this unbiblical?

God is One. All that is and has been created is an expression of the one God - through and by Christ, who is the Only Begotten, who was with God and is God in the beginning.

And it is the prayer of the physical expression of Christ that fallen mankind become One with God again (John 17).


Jack

[Sparko]

Eghads!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In the beginning, the first 'act' by God of creation was a Thought to create - to express Himself in individualization, and that thought was and is His Word. His Word is likened to the Seed, the Power, the Force, behind all creation and was carried forth from Him in His Only Begotten, Christ, by whom and through whom all that is created was created.

The Son being The Word, the Seed of Creation, the Power, the Force, Love.

The procreation process of fallen humanity is a crude picture of the same, which makes sense, since all there is is God and what He has created from His Mind, His Nature. And so all that is has to somehow be of the same - either a direct image or a distorted reflection (cloudy) as is fallen creation.

And then the Word became flesh, partook of flesh, just as did mankind, in order to reach mankind.

How is any of this unbiblical?

God is One. All that is and has been created is an expression of the one God - through and by Christ, who is the Only Begotten, who was with God and is God in the beginning.

And it is the prayer of the physical expression of Christ that fallen mankind become One with God again (John 17).


Jack

Jack, you need to keep reading..

John 1:3
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

If the son or word was the second thing made after the Holy Spirit, then John 1:3 is a lie. If the Son was created at all then John 1:3 is a lie.

[JackC]

Jack, you need to keep reading..

John 1:3
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

If the son or word was the second thing made after the Holy Spirit, then John 1:3 is a lie. If the Son was created at all then John 1:3 is a lie.

The Word was with God in the Beginning, it was His Thought to create, and in that Thought contained all the Power and Love - the Seed for creation to be manifested.

Think of the Word as being a combination of man's 'seed' and his will, which result, through interaction with woman, in a 'begotten' by them, and not a 'created'. And Christ carries the Seed, or the Word, is the Seed or the Word, for all of creation.

The Holy Spirit is God, just a polarization of God into certain attributes, feminine attributes which when interplayed with the masculine attributes, resulted in the Only Begotten - Christ.

Let's look at Genesis. Eve was not created - but taken from the side of Adam. Eve was neither begotten nor created. This occurred in the same image, although a cloudy-fallen-reflection, as God and His Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit was not begotten, nor created, but taken out of the side of God, as God's divine Helpmeet.

Let your heart See.




Jack

[Sparko]

The Word was with God in the Beginning, it was His Thought to create, and in that Thought contained all the Power and Love - the Seed for creation to be manifested.

Think of the Word as being a combination of man's 'seed' and his will, which result, through interaction with woman, in a 'begotten' by them, and not a 'created'. And Christ carries the Seed, or the Word, is the Seed or the Word, for all of creation.

The Holy Spirit is God, just a polarization of God into certain attributes, feminine attributes which when interplayed with the masculine attributes, resulted in the Only Begotten - Christ.

Let's look at Genesis. Eve was not created - but taken from the side of Adam. Eve was neither begotten nor created. This occurred in the same image, although a cloudy-fallen-reflection, as God and His Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit was not begotten, nor created, but taken out of the side of God, as God's divine Helpmeet.

Let your heart See.




Jack

Jack, the "word" became flesh. The "word" was the son. The "word" is Jesus. You contradict yourself. You first said that God made the Holy Spirit and then the two of them made the Son. Now you are claiming the word existed all the time and is some metaphysical concept.

You should at least get your "theory" consistant before you present to the world.

And if you don't accept the word as being Jesus, you can read in Colossian 1 where it says that the Christ Jesus created everything in heaven and earth.

Col 1:16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Saying he was not created because God "split" him off somehow is nonsense. Yes, Eve was created. She was created by God from Adam's rib. When something that did not exist comes to exist because of the actions of another being, that thing is created.

---
PS - you said:


And so this One Spirit differentiated Itself into Two - It's Infinite Self and a being just like Itself in all ways, but finite. The latter is known in Christianity as the Holy Spirit.

Jack, what is 1/2 of infinity? or 1/1,000,000,000th?

[sylvius]

John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.


compare:


And God created man in His image In the form that was made for him, for everything [else] was created with the word, whereas he was created with the hands (of God)

it is saying the same


Name Adam can be read as "ani domeh" = I am like, I resemble.

Read:
http://www.geocities.com/fweinreb_documentation/Tradam.html

that's what John 1 is about!


same in


So, too, it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living being," the last Adam a life-giving spirit. But the spiritual was not first; rather the natural and then the spiritual.
The first man was from the earth, earthly; the second man, from heaven.

[JackC]

Jack, the "word" became flesh. The "word" was the son. The "word" is Jesus. You contradict yourself. You first said that God made the Holy Spirit and then the two of them made the Son. Now you are claiming the word existed all the time and is some metaphysical concept.

You should at least get your "theory" consistant before you present to the world.

And if you don't accept the word as being Jesus, you can read in Colossian 1 where it says that the Christ Jesus created everything in heaven and earth.

Col 1:16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Saying he was not created because God "split" him off somehow is nonsense. Yes, Eve was created. She was created by God from Adam's rib. When something that did not exist comes to exist because of the actions of another being, that thing is created.

---
PS - you said:



Jack, what is 1/2 of infinity? or 1/1,000,000,000th?


Although what is offered is not inconsistent (and is the same that is at the root of multiple spiritual tradtions) we cannot See unless we choose to.

We must Love Truth, and seek right understanding at all costs, even at the cost of our previous understanding, or our beloved church - for following after Christ will cost us everything, or we will remain in darkness.

If you hunger and thirst, then re read what has been offered, and see that it is not inconsistent. If not, then there is nothing I can say.




Jack

[Sparko]

Although what is offered is not inconsistent (and is the same that is at the root of multiple spiritual tradtions) we cannot See unless we choose to.

We must Love Truth, and seek right understanding at all costs, even at the cost of our previous understanding, or our beloved church - for following after Christ will cost us everything, or we will remain in darkness.

If you hunger and thirst, then re read what has been offered, and see that it is not inconsistent. If not, then there is nothing I can say.




Jack

and that answered my objections how? Spewing more mumbo jumbo isn't an answer, Jack.

[sylvius]

"and the word became flesh"

the word of which is said before:

"Through it all things were made; without it nothing was made that has been made"

but man was made by hand, in the image and after the likeness of God.

how?

in such a way that he was able to speak the word through which all things were made!

[JackC]

I am not sure, Sparko, if answering your questions will be of any benefit, but here we go...

Jack, the "word" became flesh. The "word" was the son. The "word" is Jesus.


The Word existed before human flesh was created, so the Word is not Jesus, but what incarnated into Jesus. Jesus the Christ, Yeshua the Annointed One. Annointed with what? The Word carried throughout creation via Christ, Spirit begotten of Spirit.

Jesus is the name of the flesh which Christ clothed Himself in.

The Word became flesh. The Word manifested through Jesus. Jesus was the Christ, the Annointed One.

And certainly - God the Begotten Son in flesh (fallen flesh not being God, but what was within was God.)

If we have never seen our own soul and spirit within us - our own soul and spirit clothed in flesh, we will indeed have a difficult time comprehending that Jesus was Christ clothed in flesh.


You contradict yourself. You first said that God made the Holy Spirit and then the two of them made the Son. Now you are claiming the word existed all the time and is some metaphysical concept.

I looked back and see that I never used the word 'made', although I could have and the meaning would have been the same. The Holy Spirit came forth out of God. It is God's Spirit as the womb of creation, and the nuturer, the comforter, the helper.

And so God differentiated this Spirit flowing out of Him, from the Him that it flows out of. There being two separate characters, purposes, and these polarizing into two parts of the Trinity, which is accepted and understood across multiple spiritual traditions.

You should at least get your "theory" consistant before you present to the world.

And if you don't accept the word as being Jesus, you can read in Colossian 1 where it says that the Christ Jesus created everything in heaven and earth.

Just as we do not have consciousness as separate personalities that function in this world, until after we we are conceived in our mother's womb, neither did Jesus, as Jesus. Christ is through whom all is made, Jesus being the manifestation of Christ , in flesh, for us who are clothed in flesh, as something we can comprehend with our senses. But the flesh that is Jesus did not create anything before it was born of Mary.

Col 1:16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Yes, Christ , that with which Jesus was annointed.

Saying he was not created because God "split" him off somehow is nonsense. Yes, Eve was created. She was created by God from Adam's rib. When something that did not exist comes to exist because of the actions of another being, that thing is created.

Right.

What I am speaking of is advanced understanding of scripture and how creation came into being.

Eve, existed before, in Adam, just as the Holy Spirit existed before, in God.

You will have to agree, yes? the the forming of Eve was different than the forming of Adam, or the forming of their children.

And how one defines these differences will be determined by their level of spiritual understanding. If you do not like the definitions that I offer, that is your choice.



---
PS - you said:



Jack, what is 1/2 of infinity? or 1/1,000,000,000th?

That is a moot question and sort of illogical.

How do you define you own mass and presence, given that you exist within of the Infiniteness of God?

You are certainly finite, existing within the Infinte.



Jack

[freelight]

I saw that you posted on the Judaism forum a query regarding the Jewish understanding of the male and female attributes of God. I am interested in their reply, not wanting to infringe on that discussion, and so thought to offer a non - Jewish answer here.

Interesting, that when I first began my journey for Truth, without fear and so without feeling a necessity to hold to what anyone else believes, I first ended up on a Messianic internet site - Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ, and it was the quote I offered to Jane that led me there.

Like Jane I too had an inner awakening of sorts that things were not as I was being taught at church, specifically regarding the masculine-feminine, feeling, without any knowledge of Gnosticism, that there was something going on regarding our fall and salvation that was being kept from us in mainstream Christianity.

This journey has led me long past the Messianic Orthodox, and if I might share here with you..

What we think of, as humans, as male-female, the different genders for procreation, is actually a fallen image/reflection of God and how He creates.

A short story of creation goes like this...

There was One Undifferentiated Spirit that had the Thought to experience Himself in individualization, in a Love relationship as the Lover, the Beloved, and Love Itself.

And so this One Spirit differentiated Itself into Two - It's Infinite Self and a being just like Itself in all ways, but finite. The latter is known in Christianity as the Holy Spirit.

These two related in Bliss, the relationship polarizing - the Infinite into Will and Power (The Father) and the Finite into Intelligence and Wisdom (The Holy Spirit). The former is defined spiritually as the divine Masculine and the latter the divine Feminine.

The offspring of their Blissful interactions was the Only Begotten, Love Itself, Christ, and all else that was created was created in the same pattern of Blissful interactions between Will and Power and Intelligence and Wisdom, through the Son, through Christ.

All of Creation exists in a spiral of this interaction - as expressed in the tetragrammaton YHWH [the Father and Mother Energies giving Birth the Son]. In Judaism this spiral of creation is called the Tree of Life, in Christianity, the Body of Christ.

The feminine is the outer expression, or the next level of creation in the spiral.

Adam, or mankind, was created in the same pattern, being both male and female, and then the feminine (Eve) became the outer expression - and not woman as is understood in the outer ranks.


The existence of mankind now as men and women, separate, is an expression of our falling from the Tree of Life - our outer and inner beings now existing cut off from each other (we are veiled to the Kingdom within.)


Jack



Hi Jack and all,

The Male/Female aspects of God/Life/Creation/Man are most wonderful as this polarity exists thru-out creation as a complimentary duality within the One. Those not familiar with the philosophical insights you have shared sensitive to these gender-aspects will not be able to translate such beyond their prefigured orthodox interpretations or understandings of God.

In the divine Mystery of the One becoming two, and then the two merging back into Unity...is the revelation of reunion with God as salvation/regeneration/enlightenment, etc. - a mystical realization is begotten. Again, one must delve into the esoterics that only the Spirit can illuminate to see the deeper mysteries.




paul

[Jawa Man]

Hi Jack,
Were you saying that you came up with this theology as you were searching, or is it from a certain source, like a Gnostic sect or something? I do disagree with your characterization of the Trinity, because I think it disagrees with the Jewish origins of Logos theology (especially from people like Philo of Alexandria), but I am interested in talking about why you believe what you do. From my point of view, which is Orthodox Christianity, I believe gender is a material distinction that exists within creation, but not in God.

[freelight]

[quote=Jawa Man;1903797]Hi Jack,
Were you saying that you came up with this theology as you were searching, or is it from a certain source, like a Gnostic sect or something? I do disagree with your characterization of the Trinity, because I think it disagrees with the Jewish origins of Logos theology (especially from people like Philo of Alexandria), but I am interested in talking about why you believe what you do. From my point of view, which is Orthodox Christianity, I believe gender is a material distinction that exists within creation, but not in God.[/quote


Hi JM,

Where did the attributes of gender originate if not in the Creator? Is there any other source existing?


paul

[JackC]

Hi Jack,
Were you saying that you came up with this theology as you were searching, or is it from a certain source, like a Gnostic sect or something? I do disagree with your characterization of the Trinity, because I think it disagrees with the Jewish origins of Logos theology (especially from people like Philo of Alexandria), but I am interested in talking about why you believe what you do. From my point of view, which is Orthodox Christianity, I believe gender is a material distinction that exists within creation, but not in God.

As Paul said -

Where did the attributes of gender originate if not in the Creator? Is there any other source existing?

If God even simply had the idea for genders, is not the idea a part of Him? And even our simple minds can see that an idea of God's is much more than a few pen strokes on a piece of paper!

All that God created had to come from something within Him, or He could not have created it, could he?

In other words, for God to create something that does not come from Him, means that it had to come from somewhere that was not Him, which means there is something greater than He.

The point being made in Jane's thread, is that the concepts of the masculine and feminine attributes of God are not solely Gnostic, but also Hindu, Buddhic, Native American, Taoist, on and on, and even Christian/Judaic, as is recorded in the Bible...


Wisdom calls aloud outside;
She raises her voice in the open squares.
21 She cries out in the chief concourses,
At the openings of the gates in the city
She speaks her words:
22 “ How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.
23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.
24 Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
27 When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
28 “ Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
29 Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD,
30 They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.
31 Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.
32 For the turning away of the simple will slay them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them;
33 But whoever listens to me will dwell safely,
And will be secure, without fear of evil.”


Yes, if you cry out for discernment,
And lift up your voice for understanding,
4 If you seek her as silver,
And search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you will understand the fear of the LORD,
And find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;


Divine Wisdom is the feminine of God, and is often in the OT referred to as a She.

In the NT, the Holy Spirit, the giver of Wisdom and Knowledge, is recorded as 'genderless' in the Greek. The nomenclature of 'He' was added in translation.

My first understanding of the feminine and masculine of God came from revelation and scriptural awakening.

I did not know what a Gnostic was until years later and even then have shunned away from most these days calling themselves Gnostic; just as I shun away from any spiritual definition other than 'lover of Truth'.





Jack

[JackC]

Hi Jack and all,

The Male/Female aspects of God/Life/Creation/Man are most wonderful as this polarity exists thru-out creation as a complimentary duality within the One. Those not familiar with the philosophical insights you have shared sensitive to these gender-aspects will not be able to translate such beyond their prefigured orthodox interpretations or understandings of God.

Yes. Most human minds are boxed in by darkness and so can only conceive of a boxed-in God - as you demonstrated in your reply to Jawa Man.

In the divine Mystery of the One becoming two, and then the two merging back into Unity...is the revelation of reunion with God as salvation/regeneration/enlightenment, etc. - a mystical realization is begotten. Again, one must delve into the esoterics that only the Spirit can illuminate to see the deeper mysteries.

paul

Again, yes.

I was amazed to discover that the concept of God is One and Creation - the Many is found across multiple Spiritual traditions - not just Judaism, just as are the greatest commandments to Love God and one another as your self.

Thanks, Paul.




Jack

[Jawa Man]

As Paul said -

Where did the attributes of gender originate if not in the Creator? Is there any other source existing?
Sure, the attributes associated with male and female come from God, but BEING male and female is foreign to God.

If God even simply had the idea for genders, is not the idea a part of Him? And even our simple minds can see that an idea of God's is much more than a few pen strokes on a piece of paper!
I disagree. I might have the idea of making a chair, but the chair is still, by nature, separate from me. So God designed gender, but Himself is separate from it.

All that God created had to come from something within Him, or He could not have created it, could he?

In other words, for God to create something that does not come from Him, means that it had to come from somewhere that was not Him, which means there is something greater than He.
I disagree. God also thought of the property of crustiness. Is crustiness a part of God?

The point being made in Jane's thread, is that the concepts of the masculine and feminine attributes of God are not solely Gnostic, but also Hindu, Buddhic, Native American, Taoist, on and on, and even Christian/Judaic, as is recorded in the Bible...
I agree that Christianity and Judaism have teachings on masculine and feminine aspects of God. However, what you said goes a new step and says the Persons of the Trinity are actually male and female. This is not in Scripture.


Wisdom calls aloud outside;
She raises her voice in the open squares.
21 She cries out in the chief concourses,
At the openings of the gates in the city
She speaks her words:
22 “ How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
For scorners delight in their scorning,
And fools hate knowledge.
23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.
24 Because I have called and you refused,
I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded,
25 Because you disdained all my counsel,
And would have none of my rebuke,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your terror comes,
27 When your terror comes like a storm,
And your destruction comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.
28 “ Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.
29 Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD,
30 They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.
31 Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.
32 For the turning away of the simple will slay them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them;
33 But whoever listens to me will dwell safely,
And will be secure, without fear of evil.”


Yes, if you cry out for discernment,
And lift up your voice for understanding,
4 If you seek her as silver,
And search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you will understand the fear of the LORD,
And find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;


Divine Wisdom is the feminine of God, and is often in the OT referred to as a She.
Wisdom in Hebrew, however, is a feminine word. In Greek, Wisdom in the Old Testament is translated as "Sophia", and that is also feminine. I took French and we learned that when you are referring to a feminine object, you say "Elle", which is the same word you'd use for "she", and when you are talking about a masculine object, "Il", which is the same word you'd use for "he". This applies to pencils, clocks, and people. The same rule exists in Russian, except the word are "Ona" and "On". I don't know why Hebrew or Greek would be any different.

Also, traditionally, the Lord Jesus has been associated with Wisdom in the OT, and He was a male.

In the NT, the Holy Spirit, the giver of Wisdom and Knowledge, is recorded as 'genderless' in the Greek. The nomenclature of 'He' was added in translation.
Firstly, I disagree with what you say the role of the Holy Spirit is in the New Testament. Secondly, even though I think God is beyond gender, I don't think the Greek words for Holy Spirit show anything except that the Greek word, "pneuma", is a neuter word. A similar situation is seen in John 14:26, where the Holy Spirit is called the Comforter. The Greek word in this passage is "Parakletos", which is a masculine noun. So now we have two words which call the Holy Spirit genderless and masculine, and with our Lord Jesus we have words that call Him male and female (such as the Sophia passages of Proverbs). This is why I think the Greek words are not sufficient in understanding God's nature, which is beyond gender.

My first understanding of the feminine and masculine of God came from revelation and scriptural awakening.

I did not know what a Gnostic was until years later and even then have shunned away from most these days calling themselves Gnostic; just as I shun away from any spiritual definition other than 'lover of Truth'.
OK, just curious. Thanks.

[freelight]

Sure, the attributes associated with male and female come from God, but BEING male and female is foreign to God.


The Spiritual Mind/Substance of Deity from whence genderal attributes exist and spring into being cannot be wholly 'foreign' from their source.

Even in the form-al creation of Man in the divine image and likeness....male and female were formed, being the matter-ial representations of the invisible attributes of Deity.

God certainly in his Unqualified, Undifferentiated, Original, Singular Being-ness is not qualified by any gender trait or characteristic but these traits originate within the creative Being-ness of God and express the spiritual polarities of 'sex' within the processes of pro-creation thru-out the Cosmos. These are the dualistic processes transpring within the One Unity of Being on a universal scale wherever 'God' is in expression.




I agree that Christianity and Judaism have teachings on masculine and feminine aspects of God. However, what you said goes a new step and says the Persons of the Trinity are actually male and female. This is not in Scripture.



It would seem feasible that the persons within the so called 'Godhead' would embody various aspects of both genders in their constitution and ministerial functions. Each so called 'person' may express greater intimations of one gender over another, which one can surely speculate on the various relatives associated with each Deity-aspect. There are many spiritual insights that are more ancient and transcendent than any definitive or traditionally literal interpretation of scripture or creed is able to articulate, so a statement like, 'this is not in scripture' doesnt hold much as a 'qualification' when the spiritual, esoteric and allegorical sense of a truth is recognized as being universally evident.



paul

[freelight]

I was amazed to discover that the concept of God is One and Creation - the Many is found across multiple Spiritual traditions - not just Judaism, just as are the greatest commandments to Love God and one another as your self.

Thanks, Paul.




Hi Jack,

Yes,....the concept of the One and the Many is universal, depicting the absolute and relative dimensions of Life.

Ah, and you may recognize that in the revelation of the True Self is the Realization of 'God' , the Source of all, being All. Loving ourselves in truth as to the actual substance and image of our true identity in God is key, as we essentially see that there is no division/no duality, and that we are all one in God and as 'God'....the One Same God-Self expressing itself in so many wondrous individualities. ( this from a more non-dual, unitarian perspective).


paul