The Reality of the Afterlife and its implications on theological beliefs

[freelight]

Greetings all,

This thread will be open for those who truly desire to open-mindedly explore all the facts/data we have on the Afterlife, and how this information might impact our belief systems and expectations when we make that transition to the dimensions beyond this mortal life. This space is for those who want to know the truth and naturally align their philosophical belief structure upon what the truth shows, after thoroughly investigating the vast research/data that is freely available in this field in this day and age.

I am currently reading some wonderful works inspired by souls from the other side, as they share/unveil the laws and prinicples that govern the souls progress in the worlds to come and basic descriptions of these spiritual dimensions.

Two of my favorite links I like to share to get people started with are Kevin Williams mega-resource site on NDE's(near death experiences) and the Afterlife - This portal site is a goldmine -

http://www.near-death.com/ (http://www.near-death.com/)

Also commendable is the lawyer Victor Zammits resource site for providing ample 'proof' for the Afterlife - he approaches it as a skeptic and applies scientific criteria that would stand in a court of law, showing the continuation of consciousness after death. -

http://www.victorzammit.com/ (http://www.victorzammit.com/)


Also compelling are the spirit-inspired messages/writings given thru human mediums by those who have already crossed over sharing what the Afterlife is actually like, describing life in those dimensions. Spiritualism and Spiritism and other branches of psychical research have many accounts of these transmissions and there is an amazing consistency in the basic fundamentals of spirit-life and the progress of the soul in the spiritual spheres.

In spiritual messages/writings there appears to be some spirit-sources who accept reincarnation of some kind as part of the souls education, while other sources discount the notion, assuming only one incarnation and then continued living in the spiritual worlds.

In my research so far.....it appears that spirit-life accounts/experiences do not uphold some of the stringent orthodox doctrines of Christianity such as necessity for a blood-atonement or everlasting eternal torment/punishment. There are different views on atonement, judgment, immortality, the Trinity, nature of God, etc. While the spiritual ethics and principles of love are universally primary...some of the notions of traditional christian doctrine have no substance in the reality of the Afterlife. So....it would seem unwise to continue to believe in such after sufficient research, intellectual honesty, rationality, spiritual intelligence have been applied after considering the evidence available. As a spiritual prospector this is your field to mine, to find out for yourself. - if you want the truth above all else.

I recommend Anthony Borgias "Life in the World Unseen" and his other works, as clear/coherent descriptions of the Afterlife, its various spheres and laws governing therein. - also vital in these accounts is how the truths of the spirit-world do not support many christian dogmas, and it is shown what is true and false.

Bio -

http://website.lineone.net/~enlight...hony_borgia.htm (http://website.lineone.net/~enlightenment/anthony_borgia.htm)

Life in the World Unseen and his other books ready to read online -

http://www.angelfire.com/ne/newviews/life.html (http://www.angelfire.com/ne/newviews/life.html)


For those willing to read the material above we may open the forum to explorative dialogue of Afterlife realities and our beliefs relative to such. I would prefer a precursory reading of Anthony Borgias book first, if possible for ground on which to discuss as it covers ones transition and experience in the spirit-worlds. - also it inevitably leads to exposing certain church teachings which prove erroneous in the light of spirit-existence.



paul

[shunyadragon]

Greetings all,

This thread will be open for those who truly desire to open-mindedly explore all the facts/data we have on the Afterlife, and how this information might impact our belief systems and expectations when we make that transition to the dimensions beyond this mortal life. This space is for those who want to know the truth and naturally align their philosophical belief structure upon what the truth shows, after thoroughly investigating the vast research/data that is freely available in this field in this day and age.

I am currently reading some wonderful works inspired by souls from the other side, as they share/unveil the laws and prinicples that govern the souls progress in the worlds to come and basic descriptions of these spiritual dimensions.

Two of my favorite links I like to share to get people started with are Kevin Williams mega-resource site on NDE's(near death experiences) and the Afterlife - This portal site is a goldmine -

http://www.near-death.com/ (http://www.near-death.com/)

Also commendable is the lawyer Victor Zammits resource site for providing ample 'proof' for the Afterlife - he approaches it as a skeptic and applies scientific criteria that would stand in a court of law, showing the continuation of consciousness after death. -

http://www.victorzammit.com/ (http://www.victorzammit.com/)


Also compelling are the spirit-inspired messages/writings given thru human mediums by those who have already crossed over sharing what the Afterlife is actually like, describing life in those dimensions. Spiritualism and Spiritism and other branches of psychical research have many accounts of these transmissions and there is an amazing consistency in the basic fundamentals of spirit-life and the progress of the soul in the spiritual spheres.

In spiritual messages/writings there appears to be some spirit-sources who accept reincarnation of some kind as part of the souls education, while other sources discount the notion, assuming only one incarnation and then continued living in the spiritual worlds.

In my research so far.....it appears that spirit-life accounts/experiences do not uphold some of the stringent orthodox doctrines of Christianity such as necessity for a blood-atonement or everlasting eternal torment/punishment. There are different views on atonement, judgment, immortality, the Trinity, nature of God, etc. While the spiritual ethics and principles of love are universally primary...some of the notions of traditional christian doctrine have no substance in the reality of the Afterlife. So....it would seem unwise to continue to believe in such after sufficient research, intellectual honesty, rationality, spiritual intelligence have been applied after considering the evidence available. As a spiritual prospector this is your field to mine, to find out for yourself. - if you want the truth above all else.

I recommend Anthony Borgias "Life in the World Unseen" and his other works, as clear/coherent descriptions of the Afterlife, its various spheres and laws governing therein. - also vital in these accounts is how the truths of the spirit-world do not support many christian dogmas, and it is shown what is true and false.

Bio -

http://website.lineone.net/~enlight...hony_borgia.htm (http://website.lineone.net/~enlightenment/anthony_borgia.htm)

Life in the World Unseen and his other books ready to read online -

http://www.angelfire.com/ne/newviews/life.html (http://www.angelfire.com/ne/newviews/life.html)


For those willing to read the material above we may open the forum to explorative dialogue of Afterlife realities and our beliefs relative to such. I would prefer a precursory reading of Anthony Borgias book first, if possible for ground on which to discuss as it covers ones transition and experience in the spirit-worlds. - also it inevitably leads to exposing certain church teachings which prove erroneous in the light of spirit-existence.



paul

Interesting sources, but the nature of the afterlife remains onjectively unresolved. They come close, but no cigars or cuppie dolls. I believe in a journey beyond, but there is a line that none have crossed and come, back and that is irrversable biological death, I have not read your sources in detail, but I am familiar with most of the arguments. I will review them further and comment more later.

[freelight]

Interesting sources, but the nature of the afterlife remains onjectively unresolved. They come close, but no cigars or cuppie dolls. I believe in a journey beyond, but there is a line that none have crossed and come, back and that is irrversable biological death, I have not read your sources in detail, but I am familiar with most of the arguments. I will review them further and comment more later.


Hi shunya,

Yes,...if the thread moves on in a postive direction (honest exploration) I have many more links, and sources on this wondrous subject. There is lots on the subject of NDE's and the Afterlife alone, and the other area of research concerns the findings of such, especially from spirit-mediated writings from spirits from those dimensions as they relate how life is there and if the more traditional/orthodox religious views correspond with what the spirits have to say and with those who have had NDE's or OBE's(out of body experiences), etc. So many angles to consider in the over-all consensus. It may assist us in gathering a true perspective of consciousness and its evolution beyond physical life.

So far most spirit-messages obviate the continuation of conscious individual existence and the reality of souls progressing onward in spiritual maturity and perfection, ever toward the Source of all Life,...the Eternal Spirit or Infinite Intelligence from whence all sentience comes into being. The universal laws governing the souls progress appear to be elaborated consistently as the same ones that govern our own progress as incarnated beings...only that in the spirit-dimensions these laws are more clear and psychically obvious...for all is mind and spirit....and whatever soulic/spiritual condition a spirit is in, that for him is his heaven or hell. Laws of compensation continue (karma/sowing and reaping) and souls make for higher progress as they fulfill the laws/principles of Light/Love that make for their happiness.




paul

[JackC]

Interesting sources, but the nature of the afterlife remains onjectively unresolved. They come close, but no cigars or cuppie dolls. I believe in a journey beyond, but there is a line that none have crossed and come, back and that is irrversable biological death, I have not read your sources in detail, but I am familiar with most of the arguments. I will review them further and comment more later.

Hi Paul and Frank,

It actually is not that difficult, we are just so bound with fear that we have become veiled to understanding.

When a physical body dies, the soul 'travels' to the astral realm, unless it is one of the few who have been liberated. The astral realm, or soul realm as some call it, is nothing more than the realm of dreams.

Dying is like falling asleep, our etheric body and consciousness going into dreamland, the only difference is that we do not have a physical body to come back into. When we dream, we are only there briefly and so only touch this sphere or that, where vibrations and energies are translated via our spiritual sensing into sensations and visions/dreams. However, when the physical body dies and there is no exit back into physicality, the astral opens up to us and we can move from sphere to sphere, perhaps even taking on a form with an appearance similar to our lost physical form, depending on our spiritual development/ability to perceive the nonphysical, and our vibration (or goodness or purity of heart).

Biblically these worlds are referred to as the heavens that will be destroyed along with earth - to be differentiated from the divine Heavens.

But for now, the astral is the place of souls and ghouls - or minions and principalities of evil that work humanity. And each soul's experiences can vary, depending on their spiritual development, and as said, the state of their heart. It can be, for some, vague consciousness and energies, and for other's, worlds can open up, where souls interact with one another.

And so everyone's experiences are rea;, but not always understood correctly.

A good picture of the various realms and experiences of the astral is Field of Dreams.

What is important is understanding that none of this is the divine Heavens, the Kingdom being not of our worlds - the beings and energies of the divine are purer and finer, with much less form than we find in the astral.

Only the pure and heart can See the purity of the Kingdom.




Jack

[freelight]

1. Frederic Myers

Frederick Myers was a professor of classics at Cambridge University in England. He was born in 1843 and he died in 1901. One overriding interest characterized this man: a passionate curiosity about the meaning of human life. He devoted most of his adult years to trying to satisfy this curiosity, but he did it in a rather unusual way. He did not pore over theological writings and philosophical speculation. He felt that if human life did have a purpose, then it could be discovered in only one way: through the study of human experiences. This conviction led him, in 1882, to found the first Society for Psychical Research with some of his Cambridge colleagues.

In particular, Myers and his associates wanted to know if human beings survived bodily death. If they did, then life in a body must have a discoverable purpose. Myers was a man of enormous energy and great intellectual ability. After twenty years of intensive investigation, he concluded that he had answered this question. He wrote a book about what he had learned that became a classic - probably the most important work ever written in this strange field - called "Human Personality and Its Survival of Bodily Death".

synopsis continued -
http://www.trans4mind.com/spiritual/myers1.html (http://www.trans4mind.com/spiritual/myers1.html)

Near-death.com bio/descrip -
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/paranormal05.html (http://www.near-death.com/experiences/paranormal05.html)


THE ROAD
TO IMMORTALITY
Being a description of the after-life
purporting to be communicated by the late

F. W. H. Myers

[Frederic William Henry Myers, 1843-1901]

through

GERALDINE CUMMINS

e-book - http://www.trans4mind.com/spiritual...s/cummins1.html (http://www.trans4mind.com/spiritual/cummins/cummins1.html)


-----------------------------------

BEYOND HUMAN
PERSONALITY
Being a detailed description of the Future life
purporting to be communicated by the late

F. W. H. Myers

[Frederic William Henry Myers, 1843-1901]

Containing an account of the gradual development of

human personality into cosmic personality

through

GERALDINE CUMMINS

e-book - http://www.trans4mind.com/spiritual...s/cummins2.html (http://www.trans4mind.com/spiritual/cummins/cummins2.html)


A general survey of the Meyers material may be done after my reading of 'Beyond Human Personality' reflecting the universals pertaining to spirit-survival.



paul

[freelight]

Hi Paul and Frank,

It actually is not that difficult, we are just so bound with fear that we have become veiled to understanding.

When a physical body dies, the soul 'travels' to the astral realm, unless it is one of the few who have been liberated. The astral realm, or soul realm as some call it, is nothing more than the realm of dreams.

Dying is like falling asleep, our etheric body and consciousness going into dreamland, the only difference is that we do not have a physical body to come back into. When we dream, we are only there briefly and so only touch this sphere or that, where vibrations and energies are translated via our spiritual sensing into sensations and visions/dreams. However, when the physical body dies and there is no exit back into physicality, the astral opens up to us and we can move from sphere to sphere, perhaps even taking on a form with an appearance similar to our lost physical form, depending on our spiritual development/ability to perceive the nonphysical, and our vibration (or goodness or purity of heart).

Biblically these worlds are referred to as the heavens that will be destroyed along with earth - to be differentiated from the divine Heavens.

But for now, the astral is the place of souls and ghouls - or minions and principalities of evil that work humanity. And each soul's experiences can vary, depending on their spiritual development, and as said, the state of their heart. It can be, for some, vague consciousness and energies, and for other's, worlds can open up, where souls interact with one another.

And so everyone's experiences are rea;, but not always understood correctly.

A good picture of the various realms and experiences of the astral is Field of Dreams.

What is important is understanding that none of this is the divine Heavens, the Kingdom being not of our worlds - the beings and energies of the divine are purer and finer, with much less form than we find in the astral.

Only the pure and heart can See the purity of the Kingdom.




Jack


Hi Jack and christians reading along,

Indeed, the astral world is a dream world basically. The previous posting on the Frederick Myers material purports the same, and offers a detailed account of his experience/knowledge thus far gained in the spirit-worlds. Yes,.....we will each have our own unique experience relative to our soul/spirit affinities, yet the same universal psychic/spiritual laws continue to govern our experience in the worlds beyond.

I wonder how much of a spiritual renewal could birthed in the organized church world if the universal laws of spirit-progress and soul-development were emphasized and the creeds and dogmas took a second seat. Some of the creeds have no spiritual value except being some theological contsruct of mere belief, assumed to have merit upon recital. Most of the spirits giving the classic works of inspired teaching within Spiritualism only called for a more pure spiritualization of the fundamental truths taught in Christianity to more emulate the Master in his ethic of love and brotherhood. The highest spirits only teach the pure ideals of love, service, ethic, integrity and all noble traits of character, love of God and neighbor as the supreme Way.

A monumental classic work held as a 'bible' to some spiritualists is 'Spirit-teachings' by Stainton Moses. He was ordained a minister and was well aquainted with orthodox teachings of the church, yet when he began to transcribe messages from those beyond,...they gave forth the teaching-ethics of the spirit-world and forced him to open up and reform his previous beliefs of the sanctity of church creeds, and look into the spiritual truths that were most important. I recommend this as a precursory read along with Borgias books for christians who want to discuss this here - the religious focus of the spiritual world.


Spirit Teaching by Stainton Moses -

http://www.meilach.com/spiritual/books/st/spteach.htm



paul

[JackC]

Hi Jack and christians reading along,

Indeed, the astral world is a dream world basically. The previous posting on the Frederick Myers material purports the same, and offers a detailed account of his experience/knowledge thus far gained in the spirit-worlds. Yes,.....we will each have our own unique experience relative to our soul/spirit affinities, yet the same universal psychic/spiritual laws continue to govern our experience in the worlds beyond.

I wonder how much of a spiritual renewal could birthed in the organized church world if the universal laws of spirit-progress and soul-development were emphasized and the creeds and dogmas took a second seat. Some of the creeds have no spiritual value except being some theological contsruct of mere belief, assumed to have merit upon recital. Most of the spirits giving the classic works of inspired teaching within Spiritualism only called for a more pure spiritualization of the fundamental truths taught in Christianity to more emulate the Master in his ethic of love and brotherhood. The highest spirits only teach the pure ideals of love, service, ethic, integrity and all noble traits of character, love of God and neighbor as the supreme Way.

A monumental classic work held as a 'bible' to some spiritualists is 'Spirit-teachings' by Stainton Moses. He was ordained a minister and was well aquainted with orthodox teachings of the church, yet when he began to transcribe messages from those beyond,...they gave forth the teaching-ethics of the spirit-world and forced him to open up and reform his previous beliefs of the sanctity of church creeds, and look into the spiritual truths that were most important. I recommend this as a precursory read along with Borgias books for christians who want to discuss this here - the religious focus of the spiritual world.


Spirit Teaching by Stainton Moses -

http://www.meilach.com/spiritual/books/st/spteach.htm



paul

Hi Paul,

Many also refer to the astral realm as the reflective sphere, because it relects the physical - everything you find here, can also be found in there.

This means that every deception that is part of the physical is also part of the astral, so just because we find something in the astral, does not make it true, any more than our finding it here in the physical makes it true.

This also means that we will find in the astral just what we want to find. And so if one is looking for soul-progress they will find it, just as one looking for fundamental Christianity, or Calvinism, or any denomination, will find it in the astral delusion as well.

Thus I do not doubt that the illusion of spirit-development and soul-progress has been found by these folks in the astral, just as any other delusion created by evil to keep us trapped here will also be found there.

Unfortunately, the only way that trapped souls can see through the lies of the physical and the astral is to See and Experience what is Real. This is why Messengers come again and again from God, bringing Light into the darkness, to reveal the lie.

And so I understand that the only way you will believe what I am sharing with you is if you receive a taste of that which is Real, Light to pierce through the darkness, revealing the lie that imprisons human souls.

Note that Soul-development or Evolution is indeed part of the divine Plan, and so it is expected that evil will create an illusion of such here, to satsify the trapped, fooling them into thinking they are not trapped.

There is no soul-development, no evolution, in the fallen realms, Paul. There is only salvation, the redemption of the captive soul, so that it may return again to the divine Kingdom and there continue on its path of evolution.




Jack

[freelight]

Hi Paul,

Many also refer to the astral realm as the reflective sphere, because it relects the physical - everything you find here, can also be found in there.

This means that every deception that is part of the physical is also part of the astral, so just because we find something in the astral, does not make it true, any more than our finding it here in the physical makes it true.

This also means that we will find in the astral just what we want to find. And so if one is looking for soul-progress they will find it, just as one looking for fundamental Christianity, or Calvinism, or any denomination, will find it in the astral delusion as well.

Thus I do not doubt that the illusion of spirit-development and soul-progress has been found by these folks in the astral, just as any other delusion created by evil to keep us trapped here will also be found there.

Unfortunately, the only way that trapped souls can see through the lies of the physical and the astral is to See and Experience what is Real. This is why Messengers come again and again from God, bringing Light into the darkness, to reveal the lie.

And so I understand that the only way you will believe what I am sharing with you is if you receive a taste of that which is Real, Light to pierce through the darkness, revealing the lie that imprisons human souls.

Note that Soul-development or Evolution is indeed part of the divine Plan, and so it is expected that evil will create an illusion of such here, to satsify the trapped, fooling them into thinking they are not trapped.

There is no soul-development, no evolution, in the fallen realms, Paul. There is only salvation, the redemption of the captive soul, so that it may return again to the divine Kingdom and there continue on its path of evolution.

Jack


Hi Jack,

If you've been following I've already touched on some of the points you are confirming - and could you show where in this thread I have taught that there is soul-development, evolution or enlightenment in any so called 'fallen' realm? I find the presumption unwarranted and unjustified. If you would like to discuss personal indictments, we can do this via private mesage or e-mail, but I'd like to keep the discussions free of such. I dont appreciate the tone of some of your posts as they appear to be presuppositional and with an air of spiritual superiority. I do appreciate complimentary insights of course as makes for fruitful dialogue as this is intended to be our mutual endeavor.

I just feel to call this out as in other posts as well, you have made accusations which I found presumptuous, but your 'opinion' nonetheless. I do wish this can be resolved and mediated so we can move on in the more pertinent and enlightening aspects of our investigations.

Now back to the directives in the OP(original post) and continuing discussion on the Afterlife and the realms beyond. I'm finishing up the second Myers transcript as he does detail his experience in the astral and spiritual worlds. As with any dictation,....we can use our own discernment as to its source and caliber. If you would like to critique any of the spirit-writings I share, you may do so,....provided you have familiarized yourself with them. I have more to come :smile: .

Just a reminder - the thread is about how these revelations might impact our theological beliefs, especially so called 'orthodox' teachings and creeds. The Borgia and Moses transcripts go alot into how these spirits in their vicinity of the Afterlife view these creeds and their so called validity. We come back to the universal spiritual laws being fundamental in our evolutionary progress. Thats the gist we are covering and its various aspects so we shall keep this in mind.


Thank You.



paul

[freelight]

Hi all,


There appears to be a general consensus among some spiritual teachings of a 'Group Soul' or a collective of spirits that comprise a Group-Soul. One source calls this a 'culmative Soul'. This is an interesting subject while on the subject of souls and individuality, each soul drawing from and being a part of the Spirit of the Group Soul. Just thought to bring this up in reflection...as more research may provide deeper insights into this. As souls progress within the collective all partake of each individuals experiences and within the Unity... karmic balances are integrated/worked out.... ultimating in the eventual ascension of the Whole. Interesting.


paul

[JackC]

Hi all,


There appears to be a general consensus among some spiritual teachings of a 'Group Soul' or a collective of spirits that comprise a Group-Soul. One source calls this a 'culmative Soul'. This is an interesting subject while on the subject of souls and individuality, each soul drawing from and being a part of the Spirit of the Group Soul. Just thought to bring this up in reflection...as more research may provide deeper insights into this. As souls progress within the collective all partake of each individuals experiences and within the Unity... karmic balances are integrated/worked out.... ultimating in the eventual ascension of the Whole. Interesting.


paul

Hello Paul,

Group soul is an advanced concept in that it is both true and not true, depending on one's level of perception.

In Reality, there is only One Soul - Christ, and we, and all beings of creation, are a piece of that One Soul. How this One Soul differentiates Itself, can be viewed upon as "group souls", or rather a budding of souls, and then another budding of souls coming from each bud. The effect is like a tree, and is a tree - the Tree of Life, and we each connect into a certain bud or branch in that Tree.

Here are some pictures that have come from visions of group souls...

41698

41699

41700


Karma though has nothing to do with soul evolution, it is a phenomena only of fallen worlds - part of the delusion that traps the children of God.

An aside, Paul - I am sorry you do not like my tone. However, I can have no other when encountering lies which are intended to keep humanity imprisoned offered up as right understanding.

The situation for humanity is dire.

Whether or not there are group souls, or soul-evolution, does not compare in importance with the pending dissolution of billions of human souls. The certain fate for most of mankind.

Also, there is nothing in the links that you provided nor in what you have offered that indicates you are speaking of non-fallen realms. All of the astral (and the causal above it) are fallen, are part of the delusion to keep humanity trapped.

Mediumships, NDE's, channelings, visions, dreams, spiritual presences and voices - are all coming from the fallen realms.

I think at one time you were studying Theosophy? I recommend reading up on some of the basics offered there for differentiating between the fallen and the divine. Here is a simple diagram that might help.

41701

The lower half of the above diagram represents the fallen realms - the physical, the ethereal, the astral, the causal. The top half are the divine realms - where there is no form as we know it.

The divine are pure Energies interacting with one another.

Of course this is not an exact representation, because things of spirit are difficult to describe in human language.

Hope this is helpful, though.





Jack

[freelight]

Hello Paul,

Karma though has nothing to do with soul evolution, it is a phenomena only of fallen worlds - part of the delusion that traps the children of God.

An aside, Paul - I am sorry you do not like my tone. However, I can have no other when encountering lies which are intended to keep humanity imprisoned offered up as right understanding.

The situation for humanity is dire.

Whether or not there are group souls, or soul-evolution, does not compare in importance with the pending dissolution of billions of human souls. The certain fate for most of mankind.

Also, there is nothing in the links that you provided nor in what you have offered that indicates you are speaking of non-fallen realms. All of the astral (and the causal above it) are fallen, are part of the delusion to keep humanity trapped.

Mediumships, NDE's, channelings, visions, dreams, spiritual presences and voices - are all coming from the fallen realms.

I think at one time you were studying Theosophy? I recommend reading up on some of the basics offered there for differentiating between the fallen and the divine. Here is a simple diagram that might help.


Hi Jack,

Yes, Theosophy has been one of my studies along with the I AM teachings - My theologyonline thread on the Mighty I AM Presence is the most extensive (on the front page of my 'Pauls Page' link in my signature). - exploring ascended master and non-duality perspectives. I'm aware there are fallen and unfallen realms and degrees of developments with spirits. Thanks for the diagrams.




The lower half of the above diagram represents the fallen realms - the physical, the ethereal, the astral, the causal. The top half are the divine realms - where there is no form as we know it.

The divine are pure Energies interacting with one another.

Of course this is not an exact representation, because things of spirit are difficult to describe in human language.

Hope this is helpful, though.




Yes, diagrams do help. Since you appear to be always warning people of the deceptions of the fallen worlds and spirits,.....why not enlighten us to what teaching-sources are so called 'unfallen, divine and pure'?????????? Seems there is alot of warning of the fallen realm and its doctrines but not much pointing the way to resources where greater Light could be obtained. Is there a reason for the silence?

At any rate,......your charge that all -
Mediumships, NDE's, channelings, visions, dreams, spiritual presences and voices - are all coming from the fallen realms is a pretty heavy blanket-judgment ..... one that demands 'proofs'. You furthermore have not singled out by your personal independent research any of the material in my links where you have deduced such to be channeled from fallen sources. So the blanket statement isnt holding too much water at the moment.

As I shared, Theosophy and the ascended master teaching do go into the various realms and those claiming to give dictations from the masters claim to be asscessing the masters of the higher spiritual worlds, those of the ascended host. Still, as in all things comes discernment. What sources/teachers have you found trustworthy or helpful for knowledge about the Afterlife?

The Myers material (provided earlier) is interesting - I'm exploring various spirit-mediated writings for a purpose.....there is a method at work here! :smile:

I'd appreciate answers to my previous inquires.


Thank You,


paul

[JackC]

Hi Jack,

Yes, Theosophy has been one of my studies along with the I AM teachings - My theologyonline thread on the Mighty I AM Presence is the most extensive (on the front page of my 'Pauls Page' link in my signature). - exploring ascended master and non-duality perspectives. I'm aware there are fallen and unfallen realms and degrees of developments with spirits. Thanks for the diagrams.






Yes, diagrams do help. Since you appear to be always warning people of the deceptions of the fallen worlds and spirits,.....why not enlighten us to what teaching-sources are so called 'unfallen, divine and pure'?????????? Seems there is alot of warning of the fallen realm and its doctrines but not much pointing the way to resources where greater Light could be obtained. Is there a reason for the silence?

At any rate,......your charge that all -
Mediumships, NDE's, channelings, visions, dreams, spiritual presences and voices - are all coming from the fallen realms is a pretty heavy blanket-judgment ..... one that demands 'proofs'. You furthermore have not singled out by your personal independent research any of the material in my links where you have deduced such to be channeled from fallen sources. So the blanket statement isnt holding too much water at the moment.

As I shared, Theosophy and the ascended master teaching do go into the various realms and those claiming to give dictations from the masters claim to be asscessing the masters of the higher spiritual worlds, those of the ascended host. Still, as in all things comes discernment. What sources/teachers have you found trustworthy or helpful for knowledge about the Afterlife?

The Myers material (provided earlier) is interesting - I'm exploring various spirit-mediated writings for a purpose.....there is a method at work here! :smile:

I'd appreciate answers to my previous inquires.


Thank You,


paul

Hi Paul,

Perhaps this will answer your queries?

Anything of form is of the fallen realms - which includes all words, thoughts, pictures, voices, images.

The divine is without these forms. The divine is pure Energies that can only be percieved by those with a pure heart, those whose vibration is fine enough, clear enough, to detect these Energies.

Only the pure in heart can see God.

The spiritual that the rest of us perceives is fallen form.

Divine Energies can descend and take on fallen form so that they can be perceived by an impure heart. But in doing so the divine Energies become impure themselves, or clothed in impurity and so are subject to distortion and contamination.

Mediumship and channelings do not fall in this category, in that they all come from fallen forms existing in fallen worlds.

There are some fallen spiritual beings who sincerely want to help, and there are some fallen beings who sincerely want to deceive.

And so mediumships and channelings are no different than what we encounter in the physical and we must use the same discernment. Just because a being does not have a physical body does not mean they are automatically trust worthy! In fact most of them are deceivers!

The only trust worthy teachings that we have are from True Messengers, Avatars, Saviors - Krishna, Lao Tse, Jesus, Buddha. And we ought to look for the common thread running through all these teachings, if we desire to find right understanding.

Regarding the Masters - these are not persons or beings, but divine Energies that at one time sent out Energies, clothing them in fallen thought forms - giving them the delusion of personality, for fallen humanity to perceive.

Presently, though any Master communication is at best merely left over distortion and contamination and not to be trusted.

If one is sincerely seeking, it is best to stick with the Teachings of the Avatars, following their Energies to purification, so that one can himself perceive the divine. Only a Christed, liberated being is the Way to Truth.

Only after walking the path that These Great Souls have revealed to mankind, will one be able to weed through, or mine all the other teachings for any tidbits of gold.

If one is not walking the path of purification - which is the path of self denial, of the revealing of the lies that keep us in bondage to self - then all this other stuff is just distraction from the One Needed Thing.

Few in this world, Paul, have known True Light. For the impure, encountering Light is much like what happened to Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus.

Most know what is called cold light. It is marvelous to the intellect, but a lie, a luciferic imitation of True Light.

If one seeks Light, the only Way to Know is by walking The Way of the Cross, all the way to the crucifixion of self.

This is the common thread in all Teachings of the Avatars.




Jack

[freelight]

Hi Paul,

Perhaps this will answer your queries?

Anything of form is of the fallen realms - which includes all words, thoughts, pictures, voices, images.

The divine is without these forms. The divine is pure Energies that can only be percieved by those with a pure heart, those whose vibration is fine enough, clear enough, to detect these Energies.

Only the pure in heart can see God.



Indeed, only the pure in heart can see God. - this is attested by all true spirit-communications(incarnate or disincarnate).

Not sure 'fallen' or 'unfallen' are necessary terms in some cases within our context-sharings. - because obviously, we all must use words, ideas, concepts, images in our communicaitons - its the 'stuff' of language. When we are in a higher psychic/spiritual realm of existence then we can use telepathy. :smile:

Form is what the divine invests itself in in creation. Forms serve a purpose. Beyond words, concepts, ideas....which have relative value and use within the medium of language,...we have our bodies too that serve a purpose.

I'm on ch. 6 in "Beyond Human Personality" by Myers - on the 'two aspects' (polarity of the sexes, duality). - I added a post on your other thread on the masculine/feminine, if you noticed. The two becoming one is a wonderful esoteric principle.

Beyond Human Personality - http://www.trans4mind.com/spiritual/cummins/cummins2.html



paul