SPLIT FROM: Please help me identify with the Old Testament view of God

[whacky888]

You are not alone brother. God has a problem with how They are portrayed in the OT. That is why the Jesus story was sent down. Jesus came as a "fulfillment" of Hebrew prophesy, which should have delivered the "fatal blow" to the Hebrew scriptures which pretty much made a mockery of the Heavenly Father/Mother whom Jesus worshipped. But, that daggone "beast" suffered that "fatal wound yet lived"!

What Christians and Jews do not seem to understand, is the fact that when they see the Names "God", LORD God, LORD, LORD thy God, Lord thy God, Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, Lord God, Lord of Hosts, LORD, the God of hosts, LORD God of hosts ect. ect.... they seem to think that these names all apply to Providence Most High. They are different characters, if you choose to believe so.

Jesus did not think so. Read John 8. Read Ezekiel 13, as even the LORD had problems with that "old wine". He said things like "don't put new wine into an old wineskin", or "a new patch on an old garment". He is really telliing us not to mix the two books.

Luke 5:39
"And no one, after drinking old wine wishes for new; for he says, 'The old is good enough.' "

Now, when your pastor or another Christian tells you that it is all the "Word of God", quote this saying of Jesus....it's called "hidden manna" for a reason.

Jesus said, "Seek not the law in your Scriptures for the law is life, whereas the Scripture is dead. I tell you truly Moses received not his laws from God as writing but through the living word. The law is living word for living God to living prophets for living men. In everything that is life to the law is the law written, for I tell you truly all living things are nearer to God than the Scripture which is without life. I tell you truly that the Scripture is the work of man, but life and all its hosts are the work of our God. Wherefore do you not listen to the words of God which are written in his works? And wherefore do you study the dead Scriptures which are from the hands of men?" (Hidden Manna)

Jesus said, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, even as the law and the prophets have passed away, than one tittle of my words to fail."

Jesus said, "Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies . . . The scriptures always have, and always will reflect the intellectual, moral, and spiritual status of those who create them. . . Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of Scripture".

Jesus also said, "The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and actions of men who were searching for God . . . they contain much that is true, very much, . . . but these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving Father I have come to reveal to all the worlds".

The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells . . .The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow minded intolerance. (Jesus)

Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves."

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Paul said this Truth, but, you want to be careful resting your salvation on the words of Paul. Pay very close attention to what Jesus actually said, and examine extra closely the things that were said "about Him".

You wrote:

As a result of these difficulties, I am beginning to view the Old Testament as man's perception of God and not God's direct revelation to man. I do not see God in the Old Testament as I once did. This presents quite a problem since Jesus seems inextricably linked to the Old Testament.

Not exactly True. Man linked Jesus to the Old Testament. Jesus actually "fulfilled" OT prophesy, in order to put that book to rest. The Old Testament god that Jews and Christians worship is NOT the Heavenly Father/Mother who Jesus worshipped, and thankfully has revealed to me.


These are just a few examples of things Jesus said that the church did not want people to read when they plastered the New Testament on the backside of that Old.

Judas said, "Tell me, Lord, what the beginning of the path is." He said, "Love and goodness. For if one of these existed among the governors, wickedness would never have come into existence."

Psalms 22:28 - For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.

Nuff said?

Jesus said: If you have gained this within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have this in [you], what you do not have in you will kill you. (Truth/Wisdom)
But those who are to be taught, the living who are inscribed in the book of the living, learn for themselves, receiving instructions from the Father, turning to him again.

I'll expound if you like. But, if you want some really good advice. As for the Old Testament, "LEARN THE BEGINNING, FOR THAT IS WHERE THE END WILL BE" (Jesus)

You can throw the rest back into the fire, or use it for TP.

Interesting note: The word "destroy" appears 411 times in the OT, and each time it refers to (what humans call god) "destroying" people and things. Of the 54 times it appears in the NT, Jesus is almost always talking about "His destruction".

Luke 9:56 - For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them

My question. Who do all Christians and Jews know to be the "destroyer"?

Now, read John 8 very carefully.

Hope this helps.

Peace

Steven Eden

[Jnthn]

It is not entirely clear to whom Whacky888 was responding. If you wish to understand the context of the posting, this post was originally post 109 in the thread

J

[whacky888]

My views are only "unorthodox" in the sense that they break from the traditional "leaven of the Pharisees and scribes". Which, puts me in pretty good company. There was a man going around a couple of thousand years ago saying some things that were considered pretty "unorthodox". What could His name be? He had a couple things to say about the "leaven" (doctrines) being served up by the "orthodox" community of churches.

Matthew 16:6 - Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees

Matthew 16:11 - How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

Matthew 16:12 - Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Mark 8:15 - And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.

Mark 12:38 - And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,

Luke 12:1 Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Luke 20:46 - Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;

Colossians 2:8 - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Do you think Jesus told you enough times to beware of the "orthodox" leaven of the Pharisees and Scribes?

The difference between my Truth, and the psuedo-truth being passed out by the "orthodox" community is the fact that my Truth can be amply backed by scripture. However, True scripture is not limited to the 27 books of the NT, which dedicate four extremely redundant chapters to the One (man) whom you worship as Providence Most High.

Jesus had something really important to say about the "fruit" of the orthodox "vine", but it gets lost due to the fact that everyone wants to "eat His body, and drink His blood", rather than pay attention to the most important thing Jesus said at that "last supper".

Matthew 26:29 - But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Jesus is not drinking of the "fruit of the (orthodox) vine".

No, I do not agree. My posts belong here, because, I am a Christian in the Truest sense of the name. The difference is the fact that I did not "borrow" the name, I earned it.

And, I have two pretty good "witnesses" to back me up.

Peace

[Narnian]

Whacky, I don't understand anything you are saying. Which is your point exactly? What is your conclusion? And where are you quoting from? I dont' recognise any of your Jesus quotes (the ones without references).

[barnasha]

Nice quotes from the quite unorthodox Jewish rabbi whom so many religious people of his time hated for speaking out against the status quo.

Gotta give love to that champion of the poor and persecuted, who cared more about caring for the sick than being praised in the churches (or as they said then, 'synagogues').

How wise is a man who isn't caught up in worldly religion or beliefs, but only cares to free people from their obstacles and increase them in their faith?

His teachings are so deep and full of life, that we can reflect on them and constantly see new things, whereas some cheapen them as some kind of words to play into their scheme.

This is nothing new to Jesus's time, when Saul of Tarsus (aka Paul) pointed out that people took their 'law' so far that they were obeying their own 'law' instead of the sacred one, i.e. the commandments given to us by the prophets, and when Jesus taught the overtly 'religious' people that worshiping God isn't about following human traditions or dogma, but loving and being real.


At that time the disciples approached Jesus and said, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
He called a child over, placed it in their midst,
and said, "Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.