Clarice
June 7th 2007, 03:15 PM
In John 3:13 Jesus says
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
The Greek ouranos(Strong's G3772) is translated as "Heaven."
How does this apply to Elijah?
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
The Hebrew shamayim (Strong's H8064) is translated as heaven.
or Enoch?
Although the word translated heaven in other places is not used, it is assumed that is where he went, correct?
Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
or even Isaiah in his experience in Chapter 6?
How does the Greek word ouranos differ from the Hebrew shamayim?
Is Paradise (paradeisos) different than "Heaven"? If so, is that where Elijah et al went?
Perhaps some original language specialists can weigh in?
Posters are welcome to discuss unorthodox views, and ithe discussions should occur in this forum.
Good questions, zguy. Such queries can bring in light and clarity.
The two questions that come to mind is what is heaven? And what is the Son of Man?
Regarding the first, we know that heaven can mean different things or places. There is the Heaven that is Eternity, where the 'throne' of the Father dwells. But there is also a heaven associated with earth, from which evil comes (Ephesians 6:12), and which will be destroyed and made new along with the earth (2 Peter 3).
It is likely, reasonable, and biblical, that these are not the same realms.
And what is the Son of Man? Ezekiel is referred to as the Son of Man, and Paul speaks of the revealing of the Sons of Men in the end times (Romans 8:19-21).
Obviously, not every human is the Son of Man, but those who hold some type of high spiritual standing.
I would offer for your consideration that the Son of Man is one of whom John speaks...
12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
I personally have concluded that Enoch, Elijah, and of course Jesus, are all those who have received Christ, the Annointing, and are fully liberated Sons of Man, One with the Father, knowing of His Heavenly realms. But not Paul. He was certainly a prophet, but his teachings reveal that he had not yet known Sonship, not yet become One with the Father, and so the heavens that he visited were the lesser heavens.
You might conclude something differently, zguy, based on your own personal experiences. Just asking though is a good beginning.
Clarice
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
The Greek ouranos(Strong's G3772) is translated as "Heaven."
How does this apply to Elijah?
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
The Hebrew shamayim (Strong's H8064) is translated as heaven.
or Enoch?
Although the word translated heaven in other places is not used, it is assumed that is where he went, correct?
Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
or even Isaiah in his experience in Chapter 6?
How does the Greek word ouranos differ from the Hebrew shamayim?
Is Paradise (paradeisos) different than "Heaven"? If so, is that where Elijah et al went?
Perhaps some original language specialists can weigh in?
Posters are welcome to discuss unorthodox views, and ithe discussions should occur in this forum.
Good questions, zguy. Such queries can bring in light and clarity.
The two questions that come to mind is what is heaven? And what is the Son of Man?
Regarding the first, we know that heaven can mean different things or places. There is the Heaven that is Eternity, where the 'throne' of the Father dwells. But there is also a heaven associated with earth, from which evil comes (Ephesians 6:12), and which will be destroyed and made new along with the earth (2 Peter 3).
It is likely, reasonable, and biblical, that these are not the same realms.
And what is the Son of Man? Ezekiel is referred to as the Son of Man, and Paul speaks of the revealing of the Sons of Men in the end times (Romans 8:19-21).
Obviously, not every human is the Son of Man, but those who hold some type of high spiritual standing.
I would offer for your consideration that the Son of Man is one of whom John speaks...
12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
I personally have concluded that Enoch, Elijah, and of course Jesus, are all those who have received Christ, the Annointing, and are fully liberated Sons of Man, One with the Father, knowing of His Heavenly realms. But not Paul. He was certainly a prophet, but his teachings reveal that he had not yet known Sonship, not yet become One with the Father, and so the heavens that he visited were the lesser heavens.
You might conclude something differently, zguy, based on your own personal experiences. Just asking though is a good beginning.
Clarice