Ok so some questions on preterism were asked on Paltalk on Friday and I was asked to open a thread cause of some questions on timing and Revelations symbols. So here it is!! Better late than never.

I would like to keep this as much a Q&A as possible and not too much debate. But the way Tweb is I expect a little So let get to it!!





:studyhound:

What a great thread. What bad timeing. For me anyway.
I will be very busy at work this week, not even in the office for 2 maybe three days. I expect to come back and find I missed out on a fantastic disussion (and moderate debate)

I'll get back to you on this one...

So how do we want to do this... Just run through the basic outline and point out historic fulfillments or comments???

Yours,
Xavier

Xavier:

So how do we want to do this... Just run through the basic outline and point out historic fulfillments or comments???

Yours,
Xavier

Your call, I am the facilitator, and (not so) ALL KNOWING PRETERISTS SCHOLAR







:studyhound:

Then Facilitate... How's we gonna do this?

Xavier:

Then Facilitate... How's we gonna do this?

GRRRR, caught be by own words!!!

Well I know that you and Dave (DMG) had some very specific questions on timeline/outline and Revelation symbolism WRT preterism. So lets Start with the outline (I am assuming of preterism in general). This ok?

If any one else wants to ask questions here we have many great preterists here who can answer questions besides myself.





:studyhound:

Works for me... Would you like me to find a detailed Outline or do you have one in mind?

Xavier:

Works for me... Would you like me to find a detailed Outline or do you have one in mind?

Na I'll work on one.



:studyhound:

Okay... I look forward to this...

Yeh, me too Studyhound.

I will probably work at steps at a time to ensure we don’t go off on to many rabbit trails. So please stop me if I am not making any sense, cause I may ramble on.

Also I will try and define words this may be redundant to some people but I like to define words so I won’t be miss understood.

And this is the most important point of all I generalize, unless otherwise noted. In the Eschatology thread Stephen (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/sho...threadid=10992)
started I was giving definitions of groups and I have a disclaimer which read:

I will be giving a general overview of the 2 views, I know some people will say, “well I am a __________ and I don’t believe that!!”. But Like I said this is a general overview. Hitting every facet of both views would take more than the text limit and then some.

Same rules apply

So lets start with this:


Preterists

The preterist view commonly holds that the events in Matt. 24 and in the Revelation to chapter 20 and the related passages are fulfilled in the past, more specifically in 70 a.d. with the destruction of Jerusalem.

So simply the tribulation was fulfilled in the past.

Preterist is a Latin (I believe) words, Preter or past.

In this view many of the passages in revelation is seen either as fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem, the Roman Empire, or the Christian persecutions by the Jews and the Romans.

Most preterists are Post-millennial or A-millennial, with some small amount being Pre-millennial.



:studyhound:

I had a few thoughts and questions about "orthodox" preterism. But I'm not sure where you guys stand (I'm a freshman) but concerning the tribulation and coming of the Lord. "This generation" was a reoccurring theme of Jesus'. "All these things (judgement) shall come upon this generation". "wicked unbelieving generation". "That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation"; (Matt. 23:36; Luke 11:50; Matt. 24:34) When that generation passed away ("burned with fire") then was the fulness of the plan (and gentiles) brought into not the Old Jerusalem, but the New Jerusalem. Is not the Bride the New Jerusalem? (Rev. 21:9) Given in context of Gal. 4:21-26, It seems evident where we are. Read it also with Hebrews 12:18-29 about -Receiving the New Covenant, One that cannot be Shaken- What is it? The "Heavenly Jerusalem" imparted to us. The old elements/order, was shaken/passed away at the close of the Jewish Polity (1Cor.7:31; Luke 21:26)
Coincidences?

Read Eph.2:11-22 in comparison to Rev.21:9-14. Also while reading through Rev.21&22 check out:
John 14:23, Jer. 31 (w/21:3)
Eph.2:1-5; Isa. 33:24; Isa. 53:4-5 (w/21:4a)
Isa. 51:11: Sorrow and Sighing flee away with redemption, hence all the exortations to "Rejoice!" in the NT. (Romans 14:17; 1John1:4)
Isa.52:9

1Cor.7:26-31;2Cor.5:17 (w/21:4c)
John 8:12; John 3:19; Isa/60:3 (w/21:22-26)
Rev. 22:15 (w/21:27)

John 7:38 (w/22:1)
Matt. 7:17;Rom.7:4; Gal. 5:22 (w/22:2)
Rev. 22:6,7,10,12,20 (I am coming soon) If Christ was really coming quickly/soon (as all recipients of the letters understood) How else could he have stated it to make it any more clear? No man knew the day or the hour (Consistent with Christ's pregnancy analogy, ie. birth pangs) but they were led to believe it was "quickly", "at hand", "at the door", and even "this generation" (Matt. 24:34) when he comes.

Well it just so happens that everything Jesus said in Matt.24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 came to pass physically within the confines of the generation that he was speaking to. But it didn't stop at the physical fulfillments (Luke 21:22) the spiritual prophecies must have been fulfilled as well. I believe most well-thought out, unbiased readers of the Bible understand the tribulation to have taken place in 70AD, including most early church fathers. But there has been division as to whether it was all fulfilled or just some of it. Of course Jesus said "This generation shall not pass away until all these things be fulfilled", and it doesn't matter how we twist that around because he said "Immediately after the tribulation" (the one he was just speaking about), and in Mark he said "But in those days, after THAT tribulation, the sun will be darkened..." I have no doubt that the tribulation Jesus was speaking about happened in 70 AD, but the question is, will the same thing happen again? And can we arbitrarily put some kind of division between the tribulation and the coming of the Lord that just isn't there?

Signed, Ex-Futurist, still a disciple of Christ, Eddy

Greetings RyanEdwards....



Welcome to TWeb.

-------------------------------------------------------

That said, I'm not sure this is the best place for your post. You might want to start a new thread with that post in it so others will discuss this.

The intention of this thread is to put forth a basic timeline for pretetism pointing out historic fulfillments along the way.

If you have comments and questions, by all means, post away, but I think your post might be best addressed else.

Thanks for coming to TWeb.

Yours,
Xavier

Yeh, I was a bit taken aback by the arrangement of references in that post. I'm a slower student.

studyhound:

Most preterists are Post-millennial or A-millennial, with some small amount being Pre-millennial.

I don't know how familar Dave is with this stuff, so I'm going to define these terms real fast.

Post-Millennial = Christ's Second Coming will occur after the Millennium described in Rev.

Pre-Millennial = Christ's Second Coming will occur before the Millennium.

A-Millennial = Christ's Second Coming is yet to happen, but the Milennium is not a future event, but rather a general event that relates to the Age of the Church (as in right now).

This is detailed in SH's post to Stephen, but I thought I'd just rash it out here.

Yours,
Xavier

PS: I'll be PMing Stephen to see if he like to join us.